I enjoyed your take on Goldberg. The greatest natural disaster in U.S. history severely tested our leadeship. In the aftermath of it all, perhaps we should turn to the President that understood national crisis better than anyone. He summed up the importance of finding and communicating truth.

“I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts.”
— Abraham Lincoln

It seems like the blogoshere is on the right track but as duly noted by Goldberg, there are lessons to be learned not only by local, state and feederal government officals but also by the media. I am glad to see someone like yourself (who has experienced old school media) is making a difference in the new media. Your perspective is important.

“The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city.”

All this says is that …..

it saved lives to let ‘em in the Dome rather than leave ‘em outside.

It does not say that the Dome was a better option than evacuation.

Eileen, first you said yourself we need to wait to see who authorized what and when, which I agreed with. Now your saying it’s Blanco’s fault. What is really your position. Plus, there’s no significant difference between what I said and what Red Cross said, except in your own mind. I wasn’t making a direct quote. What ever ponts your trying to make are just alot of noise.

Owl, thousands of people who got tied up in the gridlock ex Houston turned around and went home, like this guy:

http://www.pww.org/article/view/7796/

There were few shelters to go to, so going back home was they’re only option. Thank God the hurricane didn’t make a direct hit on Houston.

The state that gets hit with the most hurricanes, and therefore has the most experience in dealing with the evacuation process, Florida, doesn’t even attempt a 100% mass evacuation like they tried in Texas. They understand how risky it is to put that many people out on the road all at once. They know the wisdom of making use of hurricane shelters. I give Jeb alot of credit for the way Florida coordinates and organizes their evacuations. And since he’s been through the drill so many times, he also knows how FEMA and the Feds should work. My own source at the Red Cross, a gentleman who just returned home last week after going to Baton Rouge the day after Katrina to set up the RC center there, told me FEMA was bungling it last year in Florida, too. Ol’ Jeb had to hold their hand through the entire process.

IF we’re really interested in sane and rational plans for emergency evacuation (and I doubt that many of you are and would just rather be belligerent), I think the officials from the cities of the major metropolitan areas should study the model used by Florida.

“The original plan was to evacuate all the residents of New Orleans to safe places outside the city. With the hurricane bearing down, the city government decided to open a shelter of last resort in the Superdome downtown. We applaud this decision and believe it saved a significant number of lives.” http://www.redcross.org/faq/0,1096,0_682_4524,00.html

This is why, Linda, you immediately saw the Coast Guard performing rescue operations. It was not POSSIBLE for, e.g., Army helicopters or other federal military assets to be utilized until after Blanco authorized it on Wednesday night.

Here’s something. Blanco issued Executive Order No. KBB 2005 – 31 titled “Emergency Evacuation by Buses”, which required all school districts to provide an inventory of their buses and drivers for use in Katrina evacuations on AUGUST 31, 2005. That would be WEDNESDAY following the storm. The PDF file didn’t allow me to cut and paste, but may be found here: http://www.gov.state.la.us/2005%20Executive%20orders/31execEmergencyEvacuationbyBuses.pdf

That order was subsequently rescinded and replaced by KBB 2005 – 25 on September2, 2005.
http://www.gov.state.la.us/2005%20Executive%20orders/25EmergencyEvacuationbyBuses-ReplacmentEO.pdf

Was Blanco aware that all of NO’s buses were left in place and therefore subject to the vagaries of a Cat 4 storm prior to Katrina’s landfall, say, while all of those people were being sent to the dome on Sunday? Did she only learn about them after the levees broke and they were submerged in floodwaters on Tuesday?

Either way, it took until *Wednesday* to start making arrangements for obtaining buses to get those people out of there.

I agree with ONE thing that my eyes observed. Bush should have been watching 24/7 TV and half of this would not have happened. He has “out of touch” media advisors that keep him “out of touch”. I can’t understand how they could possibly have missed for 24 hours that not only did they have a huge natural disaster, but the enemy finally found the right ammo. That this campaign had all the elements for winning. How could the Black Caucus, “black voters are being screwed” Jackson, “they are eating the corpes”, Bush hates and traps black people……LOOK….LOOK….not be a winner when 90% of them vote Democratic? Those people are poor and it’s Bush fault……..not be a winner? LOOK…LOOK…he is starving them. He took all our soldiers so they cant’t help US. He let this disaster happen……he refused to sign Kyoto. FEMA is crap because he appointed someone on HIS side. I can name a thousand others……..but……..forget it. As I said, the person that needs to be fired is the Bush media watcher. Buy a TV and think.

Bush should have come to the cameras on his first trip down and said “The LA government is playing “political chicken” with me. They are hiring Democratic advisors instead of acting. I hereby declare the state of LA under FEDs. I take this state with military force and “bring it on” if you want to try to impeach me for it”.

Is this what you wanted Linda?

My gripe with The Media and grade of F- from the jump go…….Identify the problem instead of doing another political campaign. Then do something in stead of standing in one spot and crying. The problem Day#2: No transportation out of there. So ask the question, like The Media being inquiring minds might consider doing. The question: Who has the authority to get all those damn buses in Baton Rouge to roll into NO? Then point at that person. Next problem: No food and water. Question: Where is it? Hint to The Media……..get off your concrete marker and go find it. Oh, you found the Red Cross? Do they have food and water? Question to Red Cross and Salvation Army: Why are you not in NO? Then point to that person.

Linda, I am a very proud Texan over our general effort at moving about 3 million spooked people when we were already overflowing with our generous efforts for Katrina victims.

What I also said was that there’s no reason why water and basic medicine couldn’t have been airlifted to the evacuation shelters. The Coast Guard certainly didn’t wait for the National Guard to start rooftop rescues, so why couldn’t the Army, with their heavy-lift helicopters, start the drops? Well, they could, and they were on standby, but they had to wait days for orders from Washington before they could start.

Hey, Linda, your words that stand alone regardless of content. Deal with the criticism.

I’d like to reiterate the facet that seems to cause the most confusion.

It’s been hard to sort out the facts. But IF this is correct….surely it bodes closer scrutiny. As I understand it:

Blanco requested MONEY on the 27th by declaring a disaster area.

Most folks seem to mix this up with the authorizing of military help, which is required for soldiers to come into any state.

That Blanco would not authorize the soldiers at this point, thus they were DENIED the opportunity to help

(even thought they were ready,willing and able by forethought from Bush – who had the US Baton following Katrina, and a faster federal FEMA response available than in any hurricane in history)

is the basis for most of the “Bush blaming”.

Blanco held the feds at bay, FINALLY giving required PERMISSION for Federal SOLDIERS to help on the 31st.

Of course, it was soldiers, not money that was immediately needed. Federal military help was NOT authorized until the 31st…under much pressure FROM Bush to do so.

Money was requested on the 27th. Soldiers were denied access to help until the 31st.

WHY? What went on behind the scenes, if anything, during that time period, besides unnecessary suffering and death?

When I said people did not drown there, I meant in the Superdome.

CF, please refer to the Red Cross statement on their website that I’ve linked to before. The Red Cross say they applaud the decision not to effect a full evacuation out of NO and that providing the shelter of last resort at the Superdome probably saved lives. This comes from an organization with much more experience in hurricane emergencies than any of us.

Linda: I was strongly taken aback by your position, but I don’t think I have insulted you. When I say “it doesn’t take a genius to know” what seems to me to be common sense, I was referring to your own sort of back-handed slap at me for considering myself a genius.

I consider some of the things you say here on this subject to be “repugnant” — perhaps that strong language is what you’re referring to — but it’s your position I find disturbing, and the way you seem to be misusing the death statistics in this instance, and not you personally.

As far as I’m concerned, using buses to evacuate people without transportation — when evacuation is warranted, as it was in both storms — is simply common sense, whether it is specifically addressed in a particular evacuation plan or not. My question to you wasn’t whether it can be found in a document, but what alternative transportation you would provide these people instead, since you seem to have a distaste for buses.

I have had to ride buses all my life. I managed to read all of Moby Dick riding the bus. It’s never particularly pleasant, even on nice days, but it’s a necessary method of moving large numbers of people at once.

You have riches in heart, soul and intellect beyond description. I learn from you every day.

If you should ever need a backup to take you out of the path of a storm, just give a holler. I’ll hightail it out of Idaho to pick you up in an instant.

I don’t like to see anyone trying to debate four at once, even our friend (?) Jay Rosen.

My comment was designed to give information related to federal troop authorization only, such as I’ve been able to find.

Ravo and I were referring to Federal Troops = must be authorized by the state due to the Posse Commitatus Act = not done by Blanco until Wednesday night. If she had asked for those same Federal Troops on Saturday the 27th, what might the outcome have been? Might she have anticipated a little looting and lawlessness in a city with the highest murder rate in the country? Might they have expedited getting people out of there? Concern regarding looting was one of the first things my displaced sister – from NOLA – expressed to me on Monday before the storm had even passed. Might Blanco have realized that a category 4 storm was going to leave her without adequate resources in terms of rescue and recovery operations, protection of aid workers, including FEMA personnel, peace keeping and etc. *such that* Federal Troops might be needed to assist the Guard, police, FEMA, and Etc.? On Tuesday and Wednesday, weren’t YOU wondering, “Gee, where’s the military?” “Why aren’t they there?” Well now you know why they weren’t there. And notice what happened when they finally Were authorized to ‘be there’. WHY didn’t Blanco authorize them sooner? What were her ‘money’ turf battles related to (per Nagin on Nightline NBC with Stone Phillips on August 9th)? For me, a lot of *key* questions continue to revolve around this one.

National Guard troops = STATE authority = several accounts (including my above citation) indicate that emergency management officials stated Blanco didn’t bring in enough Guards soon enough, which would have quelled whatever level of looting/violence anyone can believe actually existed by reading/listening to the MSM. What Guard numbers did she call in when?

FEMA was on the ground in Baton Rouge and many other locations on Saturday, *August 27th*. Several reports indicate they had to leave the dome due to violence in and around it and lack of local law enforcement (or National Guard) to keep the peace. Please google away.

We are still missing so many facts. But to try to suggest that ‘full evacuations’ in neighboring states for Rita were botched by the locals in order to attempt to comparatively argue that what the locals DIDN’T DO in NOLA in Katrina was *better* and therefore everything is still all the fault of Bush/FEMA is stretching it, based upon what facts we do have. Thanks to MSM, that is still precious little.

As to your comment: “People didn’t die on their way to the Superdome, they didn’t die during the hurricane, they didn’t even die by drowning there the next day.” Oh Really. Kind of like those people in the St. Bernard Parish nursing home I guess? Have some authority for how the as yet unknown total of those who perished actually did die, including those at the dome and center, which is still not at all clear?

Will you agree that we need more FACTS, Linda? MSM? If we little people commenters see all the horrific, gaping gaps in your coverage, don’t you?

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/fedagencies/july-dec05/prepare_9-26.html

“MARGARET WARNER (PBS): When you are saying you are starting this public awareness campaign, I mean, how are you communicating this?

DEPUTY MAYOR (for public safety and justice in Wash D.C.) EDWARD REISKIN: This campaign is a multimedia campaign; we’re doing it through community training sessions; we’re doing it through television, radio, billboards, as many channels as we can to reemphasize this message.
The silver lining of what’s happening in the Gulf Coast is that it is helping to raise awareness. But we do have in the District of Columbia and now rolling out throughout the region a text alert system where people can get messages through any kind of text device, e-mail, cell phone. We also have a reverse 911 system where we basically can send a regular telephone call to people with messages.

And I think that the chief is absolutely right. Most cases, most scenarios that are likely to happen, evacuation is not what’s best for the residents and it’s not what we would recommend. In fact, evacuation may put people more in harm’s way than keep them from it. And they, of course, also inhibit the movement of emergency response equipment. So our main message to folks is to shelter in place, is to stay where they are.

MARGARET WARNER: And a quick question — go ahead. And one quick question. I know you are better prepared than others. But how would you avoid the two problems we saw in New Orleans? One: People who didn’t want to leave or couldn’t leave; or in this case of Houston, so many people leaving that you do have gridlock?

CHIEF CARLOS CASTILLO (Miami-Dade Office of Emergency Management): Well, two ways. The tough part of those three questions is the people who don’t want to leave. And that change is based on their perception of a threat to them, or possible threat to them.
For people who want to leave, and perhaps don’t have transportation, we have implemented several programs. One is a, when we bring people to shelters, or we open shelters or evacuate from the areas, the coastal areas, we have our metro buses that pick people up at predetermined points that are marked. They are called hurricane bus pick-up points, where people can catch a bus there.
The buses are — their regular schedules or regular routes are canceled and then they just run the hurricane route. And that allows people the opportunity to come forward and to be able to leave if they want to.
The part of eliminating or preventing gridlock, you know, it is a careful balance. If we decide on an evacuation too soon, and the hurricane takes a turn and turns away, the next time you ask for an evacuation it will be tougher for people to heed the warning. If we wait too long, then we won’t be able to get out the 400,000 people that must evacuate.
So our purpose in getting that message out is we tell people early on, if you live in an evacuation zone, now is the time to leave; leave early so that there’s still time. We hope they have made arrangements before the storm and have a plan on where they are going to go.”

Note that the shelters that Mr. Castillo refers to are within the Miami-Dade area. They don’t use school buses to evacuate people out of the area. NO used the same evacuation plan that Florida uses, that most major coastal metropolitan areas use.
Your position on the school buses, is impractical.

Eileen and Ravo, state of emergency declaration initiates FEMA. That was done on Saturday. I’m not making the issue of the National Guard, you are. There was no reason why water and basic medicine couldn’t have been airlifted to the people stuck at the Superdome and Convention Centers. Those that were dying outside the Superdome (no, not anything to do with the murder rumors going on inside) That could have EASILY been arranged by FEMA.

Houston apparently didn’t open their public shelters and kept the Red Cross shelters a secret.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050924/ts_alt_afp/usweatherstormhoustonhomeless_050924064143;_ylt=Ajrlia4KxVmaZ.1UeHCKOEuCbpwv;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Please note here’s Florida states that if you have to go to a shelter, you have to take along you disaster emergency kit, which includes your own food and water.

http://www.floridadisaster.org/bpr/Response/Plans/Nathaz/Brochure/placetogo.htm

CF, did you look at the emergency plans as I suggested? Of course not, because it would invalidate your position. Much easier to throw insults, isn’t it. BTW, blown down trees and power lines are usually the result of the storm. Those aren’t included in the 60.

I do have a friend who would drive me out in an evacuation, but if I did not, I would have to look to the city to see if they were providing alternative transportation out of the city.

Again, what form of transportation would this take the form of?

A. A bus
B. A Boeing 757
C. A luxury yacht
D. Jet skis

It really doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. Trying to twist Nagin’s “no buses” gambit into something positive is strained beyond belief.

Your link to the article about the 60 deaths is interesting, Linda. Did you read why the deaths happened?

Power outages and falling trees were blamed for at least 10 deaths.

Right off the bat, 1/6 of that 60 died “before the storm”, but not *because* of being evacuated. Evacuation didn’t cause the power to go out or the trees to fall.

At least one person died as he readied his home for the storm, a man in his 60s who fell and broke his leg in Texas City

Again, not evacuation, but the preparations the man would be performing, anyway.

You’re also forgetting that the storm didn’t just pass by harmlessly because it didn’t raze Houston. It angled off and hit smaller towns whose destruction didn’t make headlines (I know of at least one that was completely wiped out). People who evacuated from those towns are not counted among the dead because they (duh) evacuated.

Cut to the chase: there was only one major evacuation-related accident, and one that does indeed account for a majority of the deaths, and it occurred not because of the failure of emergency workers or politicians, but because a company contracted to provide buses wasn’t properly servicing their buses. A tire caught on fire, and it exploded. Before it did, a courageous woman charged into the bus and carried out as many of the elderly occupants as she could before the explosion. Nobody here — NOBODY — questioned why those people were on the bus, especially in light of the elderly in Broussard’s parish who *died* in a gruesome and unnecessary way because they were *not* evacuated.

Broussard’s people died because they were left to die; the people on that bus died because a company didn’t do what they were supposed to, even though they were being taken to safety.

The idea that you would take this bare number and spin it into an argument to defend Nagin, his stranded buses, and the stupid situation that residents faced in that dome is repugnant. Further, to use these numbers to slime the people of Texas who /did what they were supposed to do/ and actually did it quite well under the circumstances is grotesque and inexcusable.

I am no genius, Linda, but you couldn’t be more wrong about this.

Well, Linda, that’s pretty much the reasonable bottom line evacuation plan anywhere in the world. And what the Keys lack in population they also lack in physical evacuation routes – one road in and out of the Keys. But, they manage it.

You’re really laughably stuck on potty trips as the big obstacle to NO bus evacuations. Not to be snarky or make you look like an idiot but I think I would have rather wet my pants on a bus fleeing Katrina than been herded like cattle into the squalor of the Super Dome if given a choice. (Why don’t you Google how many toilets there are there per person?)

These shelters don’t provide food, they don’t water. All they do is provide for a place to hunker down until the storm passes. That’s it.

No water, no food, you sure about that? And geez, Linda, I bet the cheap assed shelters were only providing generic tp too.

Oh, and by the way, how long do you think the tp lasted at the Super Dome?

Since the storm hit early Monday morning, I’m sure those almost three days meant a lot to the people ‘waiting’…

They waited all day Monday.
They waited all day Tuesday.
They waited all day Wednesday…

Then why did Blanco hold the Feds up for two days?