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	<title>Comments on: Not quite, Times</title>
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	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:22:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Solomon</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-130267</link>
		<dc:creator>Solomon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Sep 2006 12:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-130267</guid>
		<description>room  B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>room  B</p>
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		<title>By: bank of america</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-85808</link>
		<dc:creator>bank of america</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Jul 2006 19:43:57 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Man, Your site is real hot!
Visit my bank of america related sites:

bank of america - http://bank-of-america-2006.blogspot.com

&lt;a href="http://bank-of-america-2006.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow"&gt;bank of america&lt;/a&gt;


Thanx! :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Man, Your site is real hot!<br />
Visit my bank of america related sites:</p>
<p>bank of america - <a href="http://bank-of-america-2006.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">http://bank-of-america-2006.blogspot.com</a></p>
<p><a href="http://bank-of-america-2006.blogspot.com" rel="nofollow">bank of america</a></p>
<p>Thanx! <img src='http://www.buzzmachine.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: building the 3rd zone &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the interaction economy is the feed economy</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-83403</link>
		<dc:creator>building the 3rd zone &#187; Blog Archive &#187; the interaction economy is the feed economy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Jul 2006 15:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-83403</guid>
		<description>[...] I have to say I am enjoying building and fostering new media ecosystems - I&#8217;ve spent the last several weeks with a friend from New York casting a message that the old line finance types in his world will understand - the most difficult part for these folks will be letting go of traditional notions and that the economics of MSM has changed forever - and my children will know nothing else. Eric Norlin makes a great comment on The Buzz Machine about this point and elucidates the mission of the platform we are building - filtering and aggregation - and the Value lies at the aggregation point!     Posted by Scott M. Beatty Filed in media ecosystems [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I have to say I am enjoying building and fostering new media ecosystems - I&#8217;ve spent the last several weeks with a friend from New York casting a message that the old line finance types in his world will understand - the most difficult part for these folks will be letting go of traditional notions and that the economics of MSM has changed forever - and my children will know nothing else. Eric Norlin makes a great comment on The Buzz Machine about this point and elucidates the mission of the platform we are building - filtering and aggregation - and the Value lies at the aggregation point!     Posted by Scott M. Beatty Filed in media ecosystems [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Porno Sex Pic</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-43294</link>
		<dc:creator>Porno Sex Pic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 May 2006 21:18:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-43294</guid>
		<description>Free porno pictures ! Free porn videos ! Hot porno movies at pornosexpic.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Free porno pictures ! Free porn videos ! Hot porno movies at pornosexpic.com</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: ALPRAZOLAM</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-38146</link>
		<dc:creator>ALPRAZOLAM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Apr 2006 00:39:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-38146</guid>
		<description>----------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;-</p>
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		<title>By: don surber</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35592</link>
		<dc:creator>don surber</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Apr 2006 13:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35592</guid>
		<description>At least the Times site has videos :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At least the Times site has videos <img src='http://www.buzzmachine.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dave&#8217;s Wordpress Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scripting News for 4/3/2006</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35521</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave&#8217;s Wordpress Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Scripting News for 4/3/2006</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 20:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35521</guid>
		<description>[...] Jeff Jarvis tells the flip side of the story, about the editorial side of the Times. It&#8217;s at times like this that I think Jeff and I should team up and create an alternate NY Times, outside the Times organization (using their syndicated content, mixed with blogs and other MSM pubs), and then sell it back to them. It would save us all a bunch of time, and who knows, it might prevent a war, or whatever.  &#160; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jeff Jarvis tells the flip side of the story, about the editorial side of the Times. It&#8217;s at times like this that I think Jeff and I should team up and create an alternate NY Times, outside the Times organization (using their syndicated content, mixed with blogs and other MSM pubs), and then sell it back to them. It would save us all a bunch of time, and who knows, it might prevent a war, or whatever.  &nbsp; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dan Gillmor</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35488</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan Gillmor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:56:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35488</guid>
		<description>Jeff, you say, &lt;blockquote&gt;"The problem is that they still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. Itâ€™s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I'd say it's both. 

The bottom-up (or as I prefer to say, edge-in) activities are clearly changing the rules of engagement for the powerful, and we can all be thankful for that. But the same tools that let us have this new impact are available to -- and are being used by -- the powerful, too.

No, they can't control the message as they once thought (and mostly succeeded). They can, however, help steer the conversation in directions they prefer, and can certainly do a better job dealing with their various constituencies.

In this new world, transparency becomes a vastly more important facet of the "messaging," if you want to call it that. Why? Because deception can be punished with viral, web-like efficiency when detected.

But to think that the rich and powerful won't find (and aren't already finding) ways to put the conversational tools to work is a mistake. They may be slow on the uptake, but at least some of them will surprise us with their adaptability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, you say,<br />
<blockquote>&#8220;The problem is that they still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. Itâ€™s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful.</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;d say it&#8217;s both. </p>
<p>The bottom-up (or as I prefer to say, edge-in) activities are clearly changing the rules of engagement for the powerful, and we can all be thankful for that. But the same tools that let us have this new impact are available to &#8212; and are being used by &#8212; the powerful, too.</p>
<p>No, they can&#8217;t control the message as they once thought (and mostly succeeded). They can, however, help steer the conversation in directions they prefer, and can certainly do a better job dealing with their various constituencies.</p>
<p>In this new world, transparency becomes a vastly more important facet of the &#8220;messaging,&#8221; if you want to call it that. Why? Because deception can be punished with viral, web-like efficiency when detected.</p>
<p>But to think that the rich and powerful won&#8217;t find (and aren&#8217;t already finding) ways to put the conversational tools to work is a mistake. They may be slow on the uptake, but at least some of them will surprise us with their adaptability.</p>
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		<title>By: Bottom Up and Top Down &#124; Center for Citizen Media: Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35487</link>
		<dc:creator>Bottom Up and Top Down &#124; Center for Citizen Media: Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 15:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35487</guid>
		<description>[...] Jeff Jarvis, commenting on a couple of stories in the New York Times, says: The problem is that they still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. It&#8217;s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jeff Jarvis, commenting on a couple of stories in the New York Times, says: The problem is that they still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. It&#8217;s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: qcontent</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35450</link>
		<dc:creator>qcontent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 04:36:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35450</guid>
		<description>PSGInfinity: 

Take a close look around, today, the GOP, Rove, and Bush operate by the same rules Hilter and Goebbels did. Their power base, the right wing religious fundamentalists allow them to get away with it. While the USA and the rest of the world pay the price. To date, the power of the people or the internet, have not been able to overcome the power of their GOP propaganda (my core argument). We will see what happens, but so far Rove does not seem overly afraid, nor does he show signs of less lying, or less abuse his power.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PSGInfinity: </p>
<p>Take a close look around, today, the GOP, Rove, and Bush operate by the same rules Hilter and Goebbels did. Their power base, the right wing religious fundamentalists allow them to get away with it. While the USA and the rest of the world pay the price. To date, the power of the people or the internet, have not been able to overcome the power of their GOP propaganda (my core argument). We will see what happens, but so far Rove does not seem overly afraid, nor does he show signs of less lying, or less abuse his power.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; That Giant Buzzing Sound You Hear is Me-dia Filtering and Aggregating - Garrick Van Buren .com</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35444</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; That Giant Buzzing Sound You Hear is Me-dia Filtering and Aggregating - Garrick Van Buren .com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Apr 2006 03:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35444</guid>
		<description>[...] Thankfully, Jeff Jarvis is more articulate in describing this emptiness than I. Here&#8217;s some choice quotes from his latest must-read post, Not Quite, Times; &#8220;The problem is that [traditional media publishers] still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. It&#8217;s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful.&#8221; &#8220;&#8230;politicians never owned politics and the businesses never owned the market and journalists never owned the news. The people do.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Thankfully, Jeff Jarvis is more articulate in describing this emptiness than I. Here&#8217;s some choice quotes from his latest must-read post, Not Quite, Times; &#8220;The problem is that [traditional media publishers] still think the internet is something the powerful use to affect the rest of us. Wrong. It&rsquo;s what the rest of us use to affect the powerful.&#8221; &#8220;&#8230;politicians never owned politics and the businesses never owned the market and journalists never owned the news. The people do.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jake</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35414</link>
		<dc:creator>jake</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 23:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35414</guid>
		<description>Just a couple of years ago journalists were expending a lot of energy pumping the "too few media companies control too much distribution" line.  Never mind that the largest radio network never had more than 11% of the market or that YouTube was already funded and building out its platform.

Of course the more thoughtful media folks (hi Jeff!) pretty much knew that the tide had already turned and the danger for the traditional media model was coming from below.  Funny how quaint the "Murdoch is taking over the world" arguement sounds today!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a couple of years ago journalists were expending a lot of energy pumping the &#8220;too few media companies control too much distribution&#8221; line.  Never mind that the largest radio network never had more than 11% of the market or that YouTube was already funded and building out its platform.</p>
<p>Of course the more thoughtful media folks (hi Jeff!) pretty much knew that the tide had already turned and the danger for the traditional media model was coming from below.  Funny how quaint the &#8220;Murdoch is taking over the world&#8221; arguement sounds today!</p>
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		<title>By: PSGInfinity</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35403</link>
		<dc:creator>PSGInfinity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 20:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35403</guid>
		<description>qcontent:

What Leftists like Hitler assumed was that they'd control the keys to the doors of information.   That's PRECISELY what's being wrestled away from them.  And they're afraid.  Very afraid.  As they should be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>qcontent:</p>
<p>What Leftists like Hitler assumed was that they&#8217;d control the keys to the doors of information.   That&#8217;s PRECISELY what&#8217;s being wrestled away from them.  And they&#8217;re afraid.  Very afraid.  As they should be.</p>
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		<title>By: qcontent</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35401</link>
		<dc:creator>qcontent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:28:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35401</guid>
		<description>THAT WHICH unfortunately DOES NOT CHANGEâ€”

Some things the â€˜fewâ€™ (in power) will always have and exercise that the â€˜manyâ€™ (not in power) do not have, nor do they understand how to defend themselves against are these propaganda strategies and techniques:

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders--tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger." --Herman Goering-- (Reichsmarschall, Marshal of the German Empire) 

"The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state." --Dr. Joseph Goebbels-- (Nazi Propaganda Minister)

"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly--it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over." --Dr. Joseph Goebbels-- (Nazi Propaganda Minister) 

â€œThe great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." --Adolph Hitlerâ€”

"What luck for the rulers that people do not think." --Adolph Hitlerâ€”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>THAT WHICH unfortunately DOES NOT CHANGEâ€”</p>
<p>Some things the â€˜fewâ€™ (in power) will always have and exercise that the â€˜manyâ€™ (not in power) do not have, nor do they understand how to defend themselves against are these propaganda strategies and techniques:</p>
<p>&#8220;The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders&#8211;tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.&#8221; &#8211;Herman Goering&#8211; (Reichsmarschall, Marshal of the German Empire) </p>
<p>&#8220;The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth becomes the greatest enemy of the state.&#8221; &#8211;Dr. Joseph Goebbels&#8211; (Nazi Propaganda Minister)</p>
<p>&#8220;The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly&#8211;it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.&#8221; &#8211;Dr. Joseph Goebbels&#8211; (Nazi Propaganda Minister) </p>
<p>â€œThe great masses of people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.&#8221; &#8211;Adolph Hitlerâ€”</p>
<p>&#8220;What luck for the rulers that people do not think.&#8221; &#8211;Adolph Hitlerâ€”</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35400</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 19:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35400</guid>
		<description>See this video:
http://www.dailymotion.com/hoder/video/40593</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>See this video:<br />
<a href="http://www.dailymotion.com/hoder/video/40593" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailymotion.com/hoder/video/40593</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ken Carroll</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35390</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Carroll</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35390</guid>
		<description>Terrific insights. 

This really is starting to look like a major transformation in the making. But, as if it wasn't enough that politics, business, and the media were being reinvented, there are even faster transformations afoot:  Steve Rubel pointed out this week that the blogosphere is just one part of an exploding online universe that includes, among other things, the social networks. Facebook.com was unknown to me two weeks ago - now it appears to have the 7th(?) highest page views on the internet, with a valuation several times that of Myspace. This stuff is coming out of nowhere! And it is only since last week that Technorati is starting to index Myspace, so we haven't even begun to see how the gravitional pull of these giants will affect things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Terrific insights. </p>
<p>This really is starting to look like a major transformation in the making. But, as if it wasn&#8217;t enough that politics, business, and the media were being reinvented, there are even faster transformations afoot:  Steve Rubel pointed out this week that the blogosphere is just one part of an exploding online universe that includes, among other things, the social networks. Facebook.com was unknown to me two weeks ago - now it appears to have the 7th(?) highest page views on the internet, with a valuation several times that of Myspace. This stuff is coming out of nowhere! And it is only since last week that Technorati is starting to index Myspace, so we haven&#8217;t even begun to see how the gravitional pull of these giants will affect things.</p>
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		<title>By: AJ Lynch</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35387</link>
		<dc:creator>AJ Lynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 16:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35387</guid>
		<description>Jeff:
good analysis..."the internet is a tool the rest of us use to affect the powerful". I made a similar point just yesterday on Ann Althouse's blog in response to her post on KOS who btw does not get it yet. 

KOS is with the NYT and thinks the left libs will wield the internet to advance their cause but the tables have now been turned on the powerful.

AJ</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff:<br />
good analysis&#8230;&#8221;the internet is a tool the rest of us use to affect the powerful&#8221;. I made a similar point just yesterday on Ann Althouse&#8217;s blog in response to her post on KOS who btw does not get it yet. </p>
<p>KOS is with the NYT and thinks the left libs will wield the internet to advance their cause but the tables have now been turned on the powerful.</p>
<p>AJ</p>
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		<title>By: Terry Heaton</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35382</link>
		<dc:creator>Terry Heaton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:53:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35382</guid>
		<description>If you haven't already, I encourage you to read Steve Hall's thoughtful (yes, he's capable of that) comments about the &lt;a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/adrants?m=2095" rel="nofollow"&gt;cleansing of MySpace&lt;/a&gt; to pave the way for advertising. It'll kill MySpace, he predicts. It may have already done so. 

Great stuff, as usual, Jeff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you haven&#8217;t already, I encourage you to read Steve Hall&#8217;s thoughtful (yes, he&#8217;s capable of that) comments about the <a href="http://feeds.feedburner.com/adrants?m=2095" rel="nofollow">cleansing of MySpace</a> to pave the way for advertising. It&#8217;ll kill MySpace, he predicts. It may have already done so. </p>
<p>Great stuff, as usual, Jeff.</p>
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		<title>By: RC of strangeculture</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35381</link>
		<dc:creator>RC of strangeculture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Apr 2006 14:23:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/02/not-quite-times/#comment-35381</guid>
		<description>Very interesting article...I think there is a definite balance between the power of media and the power of the people...and I would agree with you that the balance does lean more towards the people...but it's balanced towards COLLECTIVE PEOPLE, which is different that just individuals.

We talk about the power of Mass Media, we probably should talk about the power of Mass People.

--RC of strangeculture.blogspot.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting article&#8230;I think there is a definite balance between the power of media and the power of the people&#8230;and I would agree with you that the balance does lean more towards the people&#8230;but it&#8217;s balanced towards COLLECTIVE PEOPLE, which is different that just individuals.</p>
<p>We talk about the power of Mass Media, we probably should talk about the power of Mass People.</p>
<p>&#8211;RC of strangeculture.blogspot.com</p>
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