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	<title>Comments on: Lost in translation</title>
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	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
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		<title>By: Old Grouch</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39184</link>
		<dc:creator>Old Grouch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Apr 2006 01:30:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39184</guid>
		<description>Quotes are from the &lt;em&gt;Public Eye&lt;/em&gt; essay:

&lt;em&gt;&quot;[American journalism was founded on] clear concept of a Fourth Estate -- the role of journalists was to question the power of the three others and big business.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
By beginning with this assumption, Mr. Pecquerie misses most of the argument. Many Americans see the role of journalism as &quot;delivering the news,&quot; not &quot;serving as the opposition.&quot; The extent that the press has perverted the first function in order to favor the second explains much of its loss of credibility.

&lt;em&gt;&quot;[T]he education of journalists was very different -- real journalists were experts in their fields, capable of anticipating technological and economic evolutions.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
He spoils his point by getting the progression backward:  Formerly, &quot;real journalists&quot; were &lt;em&gt;generalists&lt;/em&gt; who combined street smarts with expertise gained through long-term familiarity with their beats.  Most  weren&#039;t &quot;educated&quot; into their specialty, they learned on the job.  Todays professionalization of journalism (and management&#039;s simultaneous uptake of the idea that reporters are interchangable) has produced a generation of reporters who know how to &quot;do journalism,&quot; but know so little about what they cover that they can&#039;t tell the truth from the b*s*.

&lt;em&gt;&quot;From one day to the next [after 9/11], a &#039;media nationalism&#039; made them lose their critical spirit.&quot;&lt;/em&gt;
Mr. Pecquerie appears unfamiliar with &lt;em&gt;The New York Times&lt;/em&gt;, the &lt;em&gt;Los Angeles Times&lt;/em&gt;, National Public Radio, CBS, etc., etc.  

&lt;em&gt;&quot;It is very difficult to understand how theories such as &#039;news is no longer a lecture but a conversation&#039; and &#039;breaking news is the beginning, not the end of the news process&#039; have imposed themselves on the media scene.&lt;/em&gt;
It is very difficult to understand how someone cannot see these ideas as axiomatic.  News is now a conversation because outsiders have greater  ability to &lt;strong&gt;question the authority of the press&lt;/strong&gt; than they have ever had before.   And if the process doesn&#039;t begin with &quot;breaking news,&quot; then where does it begin?

&lt;em&gt;...Eason Jordan -- most of the pressure in the blogosphere was placed on Jordan to resign, completely overshadowing the real issue -- whether journalists were being targeted in Iraq.&lt;/em&gt;
Eason Jordan made a charge, and was challenged to back it up.  He failed to do so.  Mr. Pecquerie seems to be saying that Jordan&#039;s remarks should be treated as an &lt;em&gt;ex cathedra&lt;/em&gt; pronouncement, with their validity unquestioned. 

&lt;em&gt;A small number of bloggers were able to turn the attention of the public and the media from major issues to secondary details.&lt;/em&gt;
Vastly overstating the power of the bloggers.  Would he have us believe that a few bloggers could dissuade the all of the press (both American and foreign) from investigating Jordan&#039;s charges, or prevent it from revealing any findings that might have supported them?    

&lt;em&gt;Why doesnâ€™t anybody dispute Dan Gillmor and Jeff Jarvis?&lt;/em&gt;
Mr. Pecquerie appears unfamiliar with the comments section of this weblog.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quotes are from the <em>Public Eye</em> essay:</p>
<p><em>&#8220;[American journalism was founded on] clear concept of a Fourth Estate &#8212; the role of journalists was to question the power of the three others and big business.&#8221;</em><br />
By beginning with this assumption, Mr. Pecquerie misses most of the argument. Many Americans see the role of journalism as &#8220;delivering the news,&#8221; not &#8220;serving as the opposition.&#8221; The extent that the press has perverted the first function in order to favor the second explains much of its loss of credibility.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;[T]he education of journalists was very different &#8212; real journalists were experts in their fields, capable of anticipating technological and economic evolutions.&#8221;</em><br />
He spoils his point by getting the progression backward:  Formerly, &#8220;real journalists&#8221; were <em>generalists</em> who combined street smarts with expertise gained through long-term familiarity with their beats.  Most  weren&#8217;t &#8220;educated&#8221; into their specialty, they learned on the job.  Todays professionalization of journalism (and management&#8217;s simultaneous uptake of the idea that reporters are interchangable) has produced a generation of reporters who know how to &#8220;do journalism,&#8221; but know so little about what they cover that they can&#8217;t tell the truth from the b*s*.</p>
<p><em>&#8220;From one day to the next [after 9/11], a &#8216;media nationalism&#8217; made them lose their critical spirit.&#8221;</em><br />
Mr. Pecquerie appears unfamiliar with <em>The New York Times</em>, the <em>Los Angeles Times</em>, National Public Radio, CBS, etc., etc.  </p>
<p><em>&#8220;It is very difficult to understand how theories such as &#8216;news is no longer a lecture but a conversation&#8217; and &#8216;breaking news is the beginning, not the end of the news process&#8217; have imposed themselves on the media scene.</em><br />
It is very difficult to understand how someone cannot see these ideas as axiomatic.  News is now a conversation because outsiders have greater  ability to <strong>question the authority of the press</strong> than they have ever had before.   And if the process doesn&#8217;t begin with &#8220;breaking news,&#8221; then where does it begin?</p>
<p><em>&#8230;Eason Jordan &#8212; most of the pressure in the blogosphere was placed on Jordan to resign, completely overshadowing the real issue &#8212; whether journalists were being targeted in Iraq.</em><br />
Eason Jordan made a charge, and was challenged to back it up.  He failed to do so.  Mr. Pecquerie seems to be saying that Jordan&#8217;s remarks should be treated as an <em>ex cathedra</em> pronouncement, with their validity unquestioned. </p>
<p><em>A small number of bloggers were able to turn the attention of the public and the media from major issues to secondary details.</em><br />
Vastly overstating the power of the bloggers.  Would he have us believe that a few bloggers could dissuade the all of the press (both American and foreign) from investigating Jordan&#8217;s charges, or prevent it from revealing any findings that might have supported them?    </p>
<p><em>Why doesnâ€™t anybody dispute Dan Gillmor and Jeff Jarvis?</em><br />
Mr. Pecquerie appears unfamiliar with the comments section of this weblog.</p>
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		<title>By: Missing the Point, Redux &#124; Center for Citizen Media: Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39111</link>
		<dc:creator>Missing the Point, Redux &#124; Center for Citizen Media: Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 19:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39111</guid>
		<description>[...] See also Jeff Jarvis&#8217; response (he and I are Pecquerie&#8217;s joint targets in the citizen media world). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] See also Jeff Jarvis&#8217; response (he and I are Pecquerie&#8217;s joint targets in the citizen media world). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Grey - Liberty Dad</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39066</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Grey - Liberty Dad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Apr 2006 16:47:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-39066</guid>
		<description>Bertrand would be on stronger grounds to criticize the gerrymandering which makes most Congressional districts a &quot;lock&quot; for one Demopublican or another Repocrat (from a Libertarian).  Most voters mostly think their vote won&#039;t matter much; and they&#039;re mostly correct.

Who would one vote for if one favored less gov&#039;t spending, for instance?

But his whining about loss of credibility is hiding the problem -- the bias of most Democrat (90%?) press people, in what is covered and what is not, and how it is covered; it is the press bias which has cost credibility.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bertrand would be on stronger grounds to criticize the gerrymandering which makes most Congressional districts a &#8220;lock&#8221; for one Demopublican or another Repocrat (from a Libertarian).  Most voters mostly think their vote won&#8217;t matter much; and they&#8217;re mostly correct.</p>
<p>Who would one vote for if one favored less gov&#8217;t spending, for instance?</p>
<p>But his whining about loss of credibility is hiding the problem &#8212; the bias of most Democrat (90%?) press people, in what is covered and what is not, and how it is covered; it is the press bias which has cost credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: button</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38744</link>
		<dc:creator>button</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:20:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38744</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a mistake to try to superimpose the political template of one country onto another.

We don&#039;t have soccer hooligans here either-- so, what does that prove?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a mistake to try to superimpose the political template of one country onto another.</p>
<p>We don&#8217;t have soccer hooligans here either&#8211; so, what does that prove?</p>
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		<title>By: ashok</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38743</link>
		<dc:creator>ashok</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 15 Apr 2006 01:03:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38743</guid>
		<description>Betrand doesn&#039;t seem to understand the concept of people having opinions. He understands participation, he understands action. And his list of what was &quot;good&quot; in the MSM pre-9/11, &quot;prosperity, diversity, credibility, the struggle for power,&quot; all reflects a media that doesn&#039;t allow for talking or reflection and instead makes certain values manifest, or keeps the political in line. It&#039;s about power or displaying power for him. How the media does so is unimportant to him. I wonder if he understands why 83% of Italians voted; I wonder if he understands why people vote at all.

The beginning of politics isn&#039;t having the Truth, or knowing exactly how something is to work exactly. It&#039;s really about having opinions, and asking other people what they think, and continuing that dialogue as much as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Betrand doesn&#8217;t seem to understand the concept of people having opinions. He understands participation, he understands action. And his list of what was &#8220;good&#8221; in the MSM pre-9/11, &#8220;prosperity, diversity, credibility, the struggle for power,&#8221; all reflects a media that doesn&#8217;t allow for talking or reflection and instead makes certain values manifest, or keeps the political in line. It&#8217;s about power or displaying power for him. How the media does so is unimportant to him. I wonder if he understands why 83% of Italians voted; I wonder if he understands why people vote at all.</p>
<p>The beginning of politics isn&#8217;t having the Truth, or knowing exactly how something is to work exactly. It&#8217;s really about having opinions, and asking other people what they think, and continuing that dialogue as much as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38731</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:52:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38731</guid>
		<description>My, my Vanco, you have all the subtlety of.... Bertrand. Disagree with me? Want to start a riot?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My, my Vanco, you have all the subtlety of&#8230;. Bertrand. Disagree with me? Want to start a riot?</p>
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		<title>By: Media Mogul</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38728</link>
		<dc:creator>Media Mogul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38728</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t agree with the previous poster that it is over for the mainstream media, but I do think they will have to be a lot more careful what they publish in future. In the past they lept on any politicians&#039; every mistake and yet they were able to get away with writing the most sensationalist stories imaginable. Bloggers and sites like MediaMatters.org will most definitely keep them on the toes and hopefully lead to a process whereby the truth comes out somewhere. I definitely don&#039;t see it as &quot;self-destruction&quot; or &quot;self-weakening&quot; and I don&#039;t see the difficulty in understanding why news has become a conversation. While previously people were only able to write letters to the editor, which weren&#039;t necessarily published, now they are able to give immediate feedback. In the long-term it will be the media outlets that adapt that survive and, in contrast to what Bertrand Pecquerie states, the mainstream media will be stronger as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t agree with the previous poster that it is over for the mainstream media, but I do think they will have to be a lot more careful what they publish in future. In the past they lept on any politicians&#8217; every mistake and yet they were able to get away with writing the most sensationalist stories imaginable. Bloggers and sites like MediaMatters.org will most definitely keep them on the toes and hopefully lead to a process whereby the truth comes out somewhere. I definitely don&#8217;t see it as &#8220;self-destruction&#8221; or &#8220;self-weakening&#8221; and I don&#8217;t see the difficulty in understanding why news has become a conversation. While previously people were only able to write letters to the editor, which weren&#8217;t necessarily published, now they are able to give immediate feedback. In the long-term it will be the media outlets that adapt that survive and, in contrast to what Bertrand Pecquerie states, the mainstream media will be stronger as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Vanco</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38725</link>
		<dc:creator>Vanco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38725</guid>
		<description>Sure Jeff, just fire away. Kill&#039;em all. 
First the Afgans, then Iraqis, now Iranians, a bit of illegal immigrants (but not all of them, you Americans need them for your sweat-shops), and then, on to Europe: those French are really annoying.
And then close your eyes, maybe, when you open them, it will all vanish.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure Jeff, just fire away. Kill&#8217;em all.<br />
First the Afgans, then Iraqis, now Iranians, a bit of illegal immigrants (but not all of them, you Americans need them for your sweat-shops), and then, on to Europe: those French are really annoying.<br />
And then close your eyes, maybe, when you open them, it will all vanish.</p>
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		<title>By: john franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38724</link>
		<dc:creator>john franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 22:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/04/14/lost-in-translation/#comment-38724</guid>
		<description>Sorry Bertard it&#039;s even worse than you think.  I am a 64 year old exnews paper addict. I read Time. News Week, etc. several news papers but I started to notice that  a story I read today would prove to be either partially or totally mis reported.  I would pin a suspect story on a board and follow up and I was stunned at how much total crap I was getting as &quot;news&quot;.  Now with the www and the blogs I can get the whole story now and from several sources.  Thank  the news God for the blogs.  It&#039;s over for the msm and they have no clue.  I&#039;m just old joe blow but I have seen the light.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Bertard it&#8217;s even worse than you think.  I am a 64 year old exnews paper addict. I read Time. News Week, etc. several news papers but I started to notice that  a story I read today would prove to be either partially or totally mis reported.  I would pin a suspect story on a board and follow up and I was stunned at how much total crap I was getting as &#8220;news&#8221;.  Now with the www and the blogs I can get the whole story now and from several sources.  Thank  the news God for the blogs.  It&#8217;s over for the msm and they have no clue.  I&#8217;m just old joe blow but I have seen the light.</p>
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