Comments on: Scandalous anti-Americanism http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:21:30 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: male http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-444919 male Thu, 03 Mar 2011 13:44:40 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-444919 most of these post are happening nowadays so I like this post alot! most of these post are happening nowadays so I like this post alot!

]]> By: CA__ http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-347957 CA__ Mon, 16 Apr 2007 15:56:43 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-347957 Just stopped by to visit and got the crunch on your stuff in here - bravo! Just stopped by to visit and got the crunch on your stuff in here – bravo!

]]> By: Ron http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-78175 Ron Sat, 24 Jun 2006 17:37:10 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-78175 Interesting to see the many attempts to find rationsal roots for Americanisn. As someone who lived in the British Empire before its disintegration, in the U.S. and Canada for many years and who has spent extended periods of time in Europe, I have reached certain conclusions about the anti-American phenomenon. Here are some: 1. It goes with the territory of super-powerdom. While Britain remained a leading world power, anti-British invective was ceaseless (before and even during World War 2, some of it came from America. Should the US miraculously become small and destitute the problem would go away. 2. No need to look for causes in American foreign policy or domestic shortcomings -- Lord knows that those doing the criticism have their own,.(Think France in Algeria, Vichy anti-Semitism and ahem Indochina. Think Belgium in the Congo. Think even Norway (google "Lebensborn"). Think Germany) No. The common root of most anti-Americanism is not the superior morality of the critic but envy of America's wealth and influence by those who wish they had it and those that once did and lost it. 4. Do not forget the special axes that are ground by this bigotry: The U S is a succesful capitalist power. To socialists this is an irritant. U.S. power and resolve more than any other factor, caused the implosion of the USSR. This for unreconstructed Marxists is unforgiveble. Do not forget home-grown, guilt-based anti-Americanism -- the British had it too. 3. Do not expect any thanks for American contributions to their own well-being such as the Marshall Plan and their protection from Soviet domination from 1945 to 1989. I think it was Talleyrand who said "There is no gratitude among nations." He knew whereof he spoke -- he was French 4. Remember always that in every country of those cited qbove. there are sizeable numbers of people who are not afflicted with anti-American bigotry, who, in factw thank God for America's presence (imperfections and all) without whose wealth and power, the world would be more dangerous neighbourhood than it is. Interesting to see the many attempts to find rationsal roots for Americanisn.
As someone who lived in the British Empire before its disintegration, in the U.S. and Canada for many years and who has spent extended periods of time in Europe, I have reached certain conclusions about the anti-American phenomenon. Here are some:

1. It goes with the territory of super-powerdom. While Britain remained a leading world power, anti-British invective was ceaseless (before and even during World War 2, some of it came from America. Should the US miraculously become small and destitute the problem would go away.

2. No need to look for causes in American foreign policy or domestic shortcomings — Lord knows that those doing the criticism have their own,.(Think France in Algeria, Vichy anti-Semitism and ahem Indochina. Think Belgium in the Congo. Think even Norway (google “Lebensborn”). Think Germany)
No. The common root of most anti-Americanism is not the superior morality of the critic but envy of America’s wealth and influence by those who wish they had it and those that once did and lost it.

4. Do not forget the special axes that are ground by this bigotry:
The U S is a succesful capitalist power. To socialists this is an irritant.
U.S. power and resolve more than any other factor, caused the implosion of the USSR. This for unreconstructed Marxists is unforgiveble. Do not forget home-grown, guilt-based anti-Americanism — the British had it too.

3. Do not expect any thanks for American contributions to their own well-being such as the Marshall Plan and their protection from Soviet domination from 1945 to 1989. I think it was Talleyrand who said “There is no gratitude among nations.” He knew whereof he spoke — he was French

4. Remember always that in every country of those cited qbove. there are sizeable numbers of people who are not afflicted with anti-American bigotry, who, in factw thank God for America’s presence (imperfections and all) without whose wealth and power, the world would be more dangerous neighbourhood than it is.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-58767 Thierry Mon, 29 May 2006 21:49:05 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-58767 John, One thing where I think you are wrong is that there is that much anti-americanism. Criticizing the US from time to time -and I admit more often at times - is not really anti-american. We have a proverb that says "Qui aime bien châtie bien". It means "Who likes well punishes well". A bit hypocritic, I admit, but whatever the critics, there is general, over 90% consensus in France in favour of the US. There is no confusion between the US, former USSR, etc... whatever you think. Then there is something I found on this blog and I find more and more. It seems like if you criticize any US policy as I've done, many people think you are anti-american and have very strong reactions. Again, I am not anti-american at all. I have bad opinion of Bush or US policy in Irak, but exactly the same for Chirac and Mitterrand - and I'm not anti-french either. Finally about poles: I don't think they make any confusion either between the US - who lacked vision at Yalta - and USSR who directly oppressed them. Responsibility is just not the same. US attitude was not "gutless" and without honour. See how many US people died in Europe. Stalin acted quickly and skillfully, at a moment where Roosevelt was very sick and feable. You should read Churchill memories. Ironically, de Gaulle, who could not attend Yalta bec. Roosevelt could not bear him was the only one to immediately understand what was happening and to tell Churchill -almost in your terms - that the deal was evil. I still believe his terms and yours were exaggerated. About the poles having the 5th largest army at the time, I remember people saying Saddam had the 4th largest army when Bush 1 invaded Irak and it is really very similar. NOBODY doubted that the poles would immediately be defeated by Germany. The big surprise of WWII is just how quickly France, who had fought so heroically in WWI, was defeated. And then, about how many poles died, I don't know about your 20% rate but it may be true. Jews certainly represent a large proportion, maybe 50% of this number, and unfortunately, poles, at the time, were certainly more responsible for this rate than the US are responsible towards poles. It does not make the number less tragic though. Just food for thought because it seems nothing has been learned and anti-semitism is strong in Poland again today. Finally, I agree with Guargle when he says Germany does not exist anymore, and the same is true for most EE countries, including Poland, Romania,etc...They try to compromise between EEC and the US, thinking it smart to take "the better of both worlds" whereas in fact they are behaving like satellite, non independant countries. Since England now not only chooses the "great shore" but also takes its orders there, France remains the only existing country in Europe with Russia. John,
One thing where I think you are wrong is that there is that much anti-americanism. Criticizing the US from time to time -and I admit more often at times – is not really anti-american. We have a proverb that says “Qui aime bien châtie bien”. It means “Who likes well punishes well”. A bit hypocritic, I admit, but whatever the critics, there is general, over 90% consensus in France in favour of the US. There is no confusion between the US, former USSR, etc… whatever you think.
Then there is something I found on this blog and I find more and more. It seems like if you criticize any US policy as I’ve done, many people think you are anti-american and have very strong reactions. Again, I am not anti-american at all. I have bad opinion of Bush or US policy in Irak, but exactly the same for Chirac and Mitterrand – and I’m not anti-french either.
Finally about poles: I don’t think they make any confusion either between the US – who lacked vision at Yalta – and USSR who directly oppressed them. Responsibility is just not the same. US attitude was not “gutless” and without honour. See how many US people died in Europe. Stalin acted quickly and skillfully, at a moment where Roosevelt was very sick and feable. You should read Churchill memories. Ironically, de Gaulle, who could not attend Yalta bec. Roosevelt could not bear him was the only one to immediately understand what was happening and to tell Churchill -almost in your terms – that the deal was evil. I still believe his terms and yours were exaggerated.
About the poles having the 5th largest army at the time, I remember people saying Saddam had the 4th largest army when Bush 1 invaded Irak and it is really very similar. NOBODY doubted that the poles would immediately be defeated by Germany. The big surprise of WWII is just how quickly France, who had fought so heroically in WWI, was defeated.
And then, about how many poles died, I don’t know about your 20% rate but it may be true. Jews certainly represent a large proportion, maybe 50% of this number, and unfortunately, poles, at the time, were certainly more responsible for this rate than the US are responsible towards poles. It does not make the number less tragic though. Just food for thought because it seems nothing has been learned and anti-semitism is strong in Poland again today. Finally, I agree with Guargle when he says Germany does not exist anymore, and the same is true for most EE countries, including Poland, Romania,etc…They try to compromise between EEC and the US, thinking it smart to take “the better of both worlds” whereas in fact they are behaving like satellite, non independant countries. Since England now not only chooses the “great shore” but also takes its orders there, France remains the only existing country in Europe with Russia.

]]> By: guargle http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51837 guargle Mon, 22 May 2006 13:33:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51837 Hmm, John seems to miss the point that Germany, as the U.S. likes to think of it, just doesn't exist anymore. The political culture has completely changed, and in place of the hyper-aggressive deutsches Reich, you have a federal republic that is a byword for pacifism. And the anti-Americanism shown by western Europeans, though a bit hysterical at times, is a natural outgrowth of disappointment in their perceived image of the USA. But perceptions go both ways, John, and if a plurality of Germans have a negative view of Poles, then the same can be said for the perception of Germans by the Poles, Czechs, etc. These images are NOT grounded in present reality, but are based on memories of a Germany, a Europe which is no longer. It's also a bit naive of you to "expect" eastern Europeans to "spit in your face" when to them, their escape from Soviet captivity was brought about by the USA winning the Cold War. Or was that just a rhetorical device to drive in your point about how western Europe should kneel down and kiss America's ass 24/7? Hmm, John seems to miss the point that Germany, as the U.S. likes to think of it, just doesn’t exist anymore. The political culture has completely changed, and in place of the hyper-aggressive deutsches Reich, you have a federal republic that is a byword for pacifism. And the anti-Americanism shown by western Europeans, though a bit hysterical at times, is a natural outgrowth of disappointment in their perceived image of the USA. But perceptions go both ways, John, and if a plurality of Germans have a negative view of Poles, then the same can be said for the perception of Germans by the Poles, Czechs, etc. These images are NOT grounded in present reality, but are based on memories of a Germany, a Europe which is no longer. It’s also a bit naive of you to “expect” eastern Europeans to “spit in your face” when to them, their escape from Soviet captivity was brought about by the USA winning the Cold War. Or was that just a rhetorical device to drive in your point about how western Europe should kneel down and kiss America’s ass 24/7?

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51356 John Mon, 22 May 2006 00:15:04 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51356 It was not intentional or direct, but it was completely without honour and gutless, and did DIRECTLY lead to the FURTHER suffering of those in Eastern Europe. This at the same time as those who started the war, (including Italy), benefit. I really want to puke when I think about this. It was not intentional or direct, but it was completely without honour and gutless, and did DIRECTLY lead to the FURTHER suffering of those in Eastern Europe. This at the same time as those who started the war, (including Italy), benefit.

I really want to puke when I think about this.

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51354 John Mon, 22 May 2006 00:12:29 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51354 Read a history book. The Poles had the 5th-largest army among the allies. Put together with the army fighting in Russia (Berling) it was bigger than the Free French army. Read a history book. The Poles had the 5th-largest army among the allies. Put together with the army fighting in Russia (Berling) it was bigger than the Free French army.

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51353 John Mon, 22 May 2006 00:10:13 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51353 And would you like to tell me what in "20% of Poland was murdered during the war" is lies and approximations? Now, to their credit and the credit of many living in Eastern Europe, I have met nobody there who enjoys telling me these things or that on top of all the horrible things that happened during the war, they were stabbed in the back at the end of the war by the Americans. Unlike most Germans or French I meet, they don't take pleasure in telling me how horrible my country is, even though, after reading some basic history, I see that they have every right to. If there were people in Europe who would want to spit in my face, I would expect them to be Poles, Czechs, or Ukranians, not Germans or French, as is the case. That is what I find so disgusting about the Western European anti-Americanism. Many of these people are still living in 3rd-world conditions but seem to be able to forgive and forget. Germans, with their fat 3rd-largest economy in the world, get off on demonizing Americans. And would you like to tell me what in “20% of Poland was murdered during the war” is lies and approximations?

Now, to their credit and the credit of many living in Eastern Europe, I have met nobody there who enjoys telling me these things or that on top of all the horrible things that happened during the war, they were stabbed in the back at the end of the war by the Americans. Unlike most Germans or French I meet, they don’t take pleasure in telling me how horrible my country is, even though, after reading some basic history, I see that they have every right to.

If there were people in Europe who would want to spit in my face, I would expect them to be Poles, Czechs, or Ukranians, not Germans or French, as is the case.

That is what I find so disgusting about the Western European anti-Americanism. Many of these people are still living in 3rd-world conditions but seem to be able to forgive and forget.

Germans, with their fat 3rd-largest economy in the world, get off on demonizing Americans.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51352 Thierry Mon, 22 May 2006 00:08:59 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51352 The US did not "stab their allies in the back" as you say. They have no direct responsibility in the way Russian handled eastern europe, except maybe some lack of judgement when Roosevelt negociated with Stalin at Yalta. But Roosevelt was sick and Churchill did not say much either at the time. "stab allies in the back" mean doing intentional and direct harm. This is definitely NOT the case. The US did not “stab their allies in the back” as you say. They have no direct responsibility in the way Russian handled eastern europe, except maybe some lack of judgement when Roosevelt negociated with Stalin at Yalta. But Roosevelt was sick and Churchill did not say much either at the time. “stab allies in the back” mean doing intentional and direct harm. This is definitely NOT the case.

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51339 John Sun, 21 May 2006 23:50:35 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51339 To have freed the Germans and then stab our allies in the back for more murdering from the Soviets - countries the Germans were in the process of exterminating - needs to be criticized. This is the exactly the same kind of stuff for which Germans tell me so many countries hate us. And for many of these countries, WWII is still very much reality. No so for countries who are top of Europe and can tell Eastern Europeans what they have to do. To have freed the Germans and then stab our allies in the back for more murdering from the Soviets – countries the Germans were in the process of exterminating – needs to be criticized. This is the exactly the same kind of stuff for which Germans tell me so many countries hate us.

And for many of these countries, WWII is still very much reality. No so for countries who are top of Europe and can tell Eastern Europeans what they have to do.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51328 Thierry Sun, 21 May 2006 23:23:01 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51328 french think so much that 9/11 was well deserved that there were over 20 million people in the streets on 9/12 to commemorate. The same happened in the UK and Germany, BTW. And everybody here is quite conscious that a french 9/11 is very likely. I will never understand sentences like "germans killed 20% of Poles" coupled to "then got money from the american for it, on whom they spit". It is full of approximations, lies and you are just merging 3 or 4 generations of people. One of the reasons why the US have shown greatness in 1945, in comparison with Russia for instance, is that they have actually freed the Germans and really revitalized the country. I don't understand how you can criticize that. french think so much that 9/11 was well deserved that there were over 20 million people in the streets on 9/12 to commemorate. The same happened in the UK and Germany, BTW.
And everybody here is quite conscious that a french 9/11 is very likely.
I will never understand sentences like “germans killed 20% of Poles” coupled to “then got money from the american for it, on whom they spit”. It is full of approximations, lies and you are just merging 3 or 4 generations of people.
One of the reasons why the US have shown greatness in 1945, in comparison with Russia for instance, is that they have actually freed the Germans and really revitalized the country. I don’t understand how you can criticize that.

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51319 John Sun, 21 May 2006 23:03:15 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51319 As an American, while I am driven up the wall by the ignorance of some of my countrymen and general lack of intellectual interest, I have been living in western Europe for six years now, and experience much of the same from French of Germans. Germans know almost nothing of the Poland or the Poles, except that they are disgusting and stupid, and one can go there for a good sex trip, but that's about it. Many also like to tell me how much similar the relationship between Poland and Germany is to that between Mexico and the US. The ignorance is shocking. The US never murdered 20% of Mexico, and then got money for it, as the Germans got from the Americans after the war, on whom they spit now, but that's just the nature of these supermen. Many Germans also take great pleasure in telling me why an Arab would want to cut my throat or those of my family, while they don't seem to realize that they're quite a lot of people in the east whose parents and grandparents were butchered by the Germans, and then were stabbed in the back by the Americans after the war. The French don't know much about that kind of stuff either. Love to tell me why we deserved 9/11 even after getting away with all their colonial bullshit for years. They'll get their September 11th one day. I don't really care any more. Americans, Canadians, Brits, Germans, French, Aussies...all really the same. As an American, while I am driven up the wall by the ignorance of some of my countrymen and general lack of intellectual interest, I have been living in western Europe for six years now, and experience much of the same from French of Germans.

Germans know almost nothing of the Poland or the Poles, except that they are disgusting and stupid, and one can go there for a good sex trip, but that’s about it. Many also like to tell me how much similar the relationship between Poland and Germany is to that between Mexico and the US. The ignorance is shocking. The US never murdered 20% of Mexico, and then got money for it, as the Germans got from the Americans after the war, on whom they spit now, but that’s just the nature of these supermen.

Many Germans also take great pleasure in telling me why an Arab would want to cut my throat or those of my family, while they don’t seem to realize that they’re quite a lot of people in the east whose parents and grandparents were butchered by the Germans, and then were stabbed in the back by the Americans after the war.

The French don’t know much about that kind of stuff either. Love to tell me why we deserved 9/11 even after getting away with all their colonial bullshit for years. They’ll get their September 11th one day. I don’t really care any more. Americans, Canadians, Brits, Germans, French, Aussies…all really the same.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51089 Thierry Sun, 21 May 2006 09:01:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51089 Thank you Guargle, because I really have a hard time defending US image in France and defending French image in english-written blogs... I insist on the term "image" because, when you go beyond imagery, there is really no need for defense and much more understanding. Thank you Guargle, because I really have a hard time defending US image in France and defending French image in english-written blogs… I insist on the term “image” because, when you go beyond imagery, there is really no need for defense and much more understanding.

]]> By: Will Pollard http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51013 Will Pollard Sun, 21 May 2006 04:28:20 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-51013 Here is another quote from a comment at Ohmynews -------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://english.ohmynews.com/reader_opinion2/opinion_view.asp?code=2070068&menu=c10400&no=292296&rel_no=1&opinion_no=4&page=&isSerial=&sort_name=&ip_sort= Bagasama, 2006/05/17 12:07 Time has changed, the world has changed, a great deal of perceptions have changed around the world. The biggest change of all, after the disintegration of the old USSR, and after 9/11, the US has now become a universally recognized Super Bully who only looks after their own selfish interests in total disregard of all the others in the world under a very narrow-minded, dishonest and dumb regime which still upholds the old cold war assumptions. South Korea has also changed a great deal. The younger generation prefer to have more dialogue with the North instaed of taking orders from Washington to treat North Korea as evil untouchables. Washington despise the so called "sunshine policy" and they prefer military confrontation instead. No matter how much the GNP (the opposition party in Seoul) might be interested to support the US policy, they also have to listen to what Korean people want, otherwise they just cannot gain power. To call this as US-Korea conflict is incorrect, since the US clearly still has the upper hand. Only the US has to recognize that Korean Pennisual now need a different approach and a more equal, open-minded policy to deal with Seoul insead of an arrogant commanding position to order Seoul around at all times, whether rightly or wrongly with an outdated mindset and pre-conceived prejudices. --------------------- There are complexities to living in Korea. The views about China expressed at We Media were a bit simplistic as they came over for me. There needs to be more discussion around this. Here is another quote from a comment at Ohmynews

————————————————————————–

http://english.ohmynews.com/reader_opinion2/opinion_view.asp?code=2070068&menu=c10400&no=292296&rel_no=1&opinion_no=4&page=&isSerial=&sort_name=&ip_sort=

Bagasama, 2006/05/17 12:07
Time has changed, the world has changed, a great deal of perceptions have changed around the world.

The biggest change of all, after the disintegration of the old USSR, and after 9/11, the US has now become a universally recognized Super Bully who only looks after their own selfish interests in total disregard of all the others in the world under a very narrow-minded, dishonest and dumb regime which still upholds the old cold war assumptions.
South Korea has also changed a great deal. The younger generation prefer to have more dialogue with the North instaed of taking orders from Washington to treat North Korea as evil untouchables. Washington despise the so called “sunshine policy” and they prefer military confrontation instead.
No matter how much the GNP (the opposition party in Seoul) might be interested to support the US policy, they also have to listen to what Korean people want, otherwise they just cannot gain power.
To call this as US-Korea conflict is incorrect, since the US clearly still has the upper hand.
Only the US has to recognize that Korean Pennisual now need a different approach and a more equal, open-minded policy to deal with Seoul insead of an arrogant commanding position to order Seoul around at all times, whether rightly or wrongly with an outdated mindset and pre-conceived prejudices.

———————

There are complexities to living in Korea. The views about China expressed at We Media were a bit simplistic as they came over for me. There needs to be more discussion around this.

]]> By: guargle http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49610 guargle Fri, 19 May 2006 09:44:54 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49610 No need to. I've been a little mollified by reading through your blog: some pretty interesting stuff. And if you really want to have a name to attach to my rep, you can call me Enguerrand. No need to. I’ve been a little mollified by reading through your blog: some pretty interesting stuff. And if you really want to have a name to attach to my rep, you can call me Enguerrand.

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49247 Thierry Thu, 18 May 2006 14:23:23 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49247 Just say your name. It will show some progress. You can also re-read my posts, I don't think you got all their subtility. Just say your name. It will show some progress.

You can also re-read my posts, I don’t think you got all their subtility.

]]> By: guargle http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49207 guargle Thu, 18 May 2006 12:51:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49207 How classic, Thierry!! Deny the accusation by dodging the question, apply a little calumny to undermine the opponent's integrity, and top it off with a reference to an fashionably hip existentialist/absurdist who worked against (French) the colonialists. Maybe the "la France eternelle" should take his maxims to heart. Hats off to you, or should I say"chapeau!!?" How classic, Thierry!! Deny the accusation by dodging the question, apply a little calumny to undermine the opponent’s integrity, and top it off with a reference to an fashionably hip existentialist/absurdist who worked against (French) the colonialists. Maybe the “la France eternelle” should take his maxims to heart. Hats off to you, or should I say”chapeau!!?”

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49101 Thierry Thu, 18 May 2006 07:16:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-49101 Guargle, I now understand why your comments are anonymous and mine public. You're just ashamed of your content while writing it and would not be happy to have to endorse it publically. Oh, and BTW, you are still completely out of topic. I will quote a french author for you, although you probably don't deserve it. "Le besoin d'avoir raison est la marque de l'esprit vulgaire." (Albert Camus). It means the need to be right signals the vulgar mind. Please, DON'T throw me a quote back. I won't be answering comments that are too low level as your last one anymore. Guargle,

I now understand why your comments are anonymous and mine public.

You’re just ashamed of your content while writing it and would not be happy to have to endorse it publically.

Oh, and BTW, you are still completely out of topic.

I will quote a french author for you, although you probably don’t deserve it.

“Le besoin d’avoir raison est la marque de l’esprit vulgaire.” (Albert Camus). It means the need to be right signals the vulgar mind.

Please, DON’T throw me a quote back. I won’t be answering comments that are too low level as your last one anymore.

]]> By: guargle http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48943 guargle Wed, 17 May 2006 14:33:39 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48943 "Thierry" if you look back in the thread, you'll see a comment you made about the fact that, though France had colonies, at least they didn't totally destroy the indigenous population. Come to think of it, neither did the US. What France did do, during its "mission civilizatrice" was to oppress, and then kill those who wanted what the citizens of the "Hexagon" wanted, way back in 1789: freedom from masters. But France continued to offer its version of "liberty" to the colonies, even after the tragic example of World War II should have taught it that colonization, whether of coloured races or whites, is morally indefensible. Oh, did I mention Haiti? And France continues to practice cultural oppression to this day towards its cultural/ethnic minorities. Or are the people of Britanny/Alsace/Lorraine/Corse happy being having French culture and language crammed down their gullets? Oh, maybe it's because decades of intensive cultural repression has all but killed local culture that most historic minorities are quiescent in France today. Thank "the Supreme Being" that the Beurs had enough of your hypocritical cant! “Thierry” if you look back in the thread, you’ll see a comment you made about the fact that, though France had colonies, at least they didn’t totally destroy the indigenous population. Come to think of it, neither did the US. What France did do, during its “mission civilizatrice” was to oppress, and then kill those who wanted what the citizens of the “Hexagon” wanted, way back in 1789: freedom from masters. But France continued to offer its version of “liberty” to the colonies, even after the tragic example of World War II should have taught it that colonization, whether of coloured races or whites, is morally indefensible. Oh, did I mention Haiti? And France continues to practice cultural oppression to this day towards its cultural/ethnic minorities. Or are the people of Britanny/Alsace/Lorraine/Corse happy being having French culture and language crammed down their gullets? Oh, maybe it’s because decades of intensive cultural repression has all but killed local culture that most historic minorities are quiescent in France today. Thank “the Supreme Being” that the Beurs had enough of your hypocritical cant!

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48842 Thierry Wed, 17 May 2006 00:17:28 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48842 Guargle, I'm amazed that "you" fail to acknowledge that the thousands of Algerians killed by french (why just "pro-French" ???) forces are absolutely not relevant to the debate, and just introduced in various comments to defensively change the subject of the discussion. As for Alsace-Lorraine, you'll be happy to learn this is now part of the hexagon, so at least some of our attempts were not that abortive, even though I don't fail to acknowledge the importance of US / british acts in that huge success. Just read my posts. Guargle,

I’m amazed that “you” fail to acknowledge that the thousands of Algerians killed by french (why just “pro-French” ???) forces are absolutely not relevant to the debate, and just introduced in various comments to defensively change the subject of the discussion.

As for Alsace-Lorraine, you’ll be happy to learn this is now part of the hexagon, so at least some of our attempts were not that abortive, even though I don’t fail to acknowledge the importance of US / british acts in that huge success. Just read my posts.

]]> By: guargle http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48708 guargle Tue, 16 May 2006 12:14:28 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48708 In following this thread, I've been amazed that "Thierry" fails to acknowledge the thousands of Algerians killed in the decolonization process by pro-French forces, not to mention the massive amount of casualties inflicted by French armies during their various, abortive attempts at extending the borders of their "Hexagon" or "liberating" various and sundry places like Vietnam, Egypt, Rwanda and Alsace-Lorraine of their oppressors. In following this thread, I’ve been amazed that “Thierry” fails to acknowledge the thousands of Algerians killed in the decolonization process by pro-French forces, not to mention the massive amount of casualties inflicted by French armies during their various, abortive attempts at extending the borders of their “Hexagon” or “liberating” various and sundry places like Vietnam, Egypt, Rwanda and Alsace-Lorraine of their oppressors.

]]> By: Leon http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48562 Leon Mon, 15 May 2006 18:46:47 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48562 Great! Great!

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48433 Thierry Mon, 15 May 2006 08:36:23 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48433 What a revelation. I'm just converted to your arguments. Thanks again. What a revelation. I’m just converted to your arguments. Thanks again.

]]> By: Leon http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48038 Leon Sun, 14 May 2006 18:03:00 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-48038 Well, you are obviously unwilling to learn about the intricacies of EU law when you persist with that 'absolute' word. The web has lots of resources on this topic. Start with the principle of subsidiarity and it should be a revelation to you to what extent EU law differs in its implementation at the local level in such areas as property ownership across member states . Well, you are obviously unwilling to learn about the intricacies of EU law when you persist with that ‘absolute’ word. The web has lots of resources on this topic. Start with the principle of subsidiarity and it should be a revelation to you to what extent EU law differs in its implementation at the local level in such areas as property ownership across member states .

]]> By: Thierry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-47076 Thierry Sat, 13 May 2006 13:08:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/05/05/scandalous-anti-americanism/#comment-47076 Leon, I don't feel my comments are absolute. I feel they are just, by far, the most moderate of this thread - although I am ready to admit the present sentence may be a significant example of the moderate nature of my comments. I am of Alsacian origin. The PRESENT situation is: - most Alsacians will mechanically complain that they feel too much property is being bought by germans. - individually, no alsacian would EVER refuse to sell to anybody who offers a good price. - the law ABSOLUTELY prohibits discrimination - what you have heard about EU civil servants can't have anything to do with law or german origin. EU servants have some loan priviledges, allowing them to buy property when they serve for a certain time in Strasbourg/ Brussels or wherever. Minimum presence is needed to be eligible for this benefit, whether you are french, german, english... is not relevant. Leon,

I don’t feel my comments are absolute. I feel they are just, by far, the most moderate of this thread – although I am ready to admit the present sentence may be a significant example of the moderate nature of my comments.

I am of Alsacian origin.

The PRESENT situation is:
- most Alsacians will mechanically complain that they feel too much property is being bought by germans.
- individually, no alsacian would EVER refuse to sell to anybody who offers a good price.
- the law ABSOLUTELY prohibits discrimination
- what you have heard about EU civil servants can’t have anything to do with law or german origin. EU servants have some loan priviledges, allowing them to buy property when they serve for a certain time in Strasbourg/ Brussels or wherever. Minimum presence is needed to be eligible for this benefit, whether you are french, german, english… is not relevant.

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