As I said in an earlier thread, an 80 some year old woman who I walked with out of the theatre after United 93 said: “Hell, Anything can be used as a weapon, even a knitting needle.”

Will you just sit there and make daisy chain necklaces, hmmm? Will you “turn into a soldier” or hug the jihadi who then cuts off your own head?

It is entirely your choice.

Please, no more *smacking*. Im just a peace loving hippie.

*SMACK*

“had the passengers on the plane been embittered, fearful, suspicious post 9/11 patriots what would have been different?”

They only would have moved Even More Quickly to do the very same thing. Gee, wonder why the jihadis haven’t tried THAT one again since 9/11?

What would YOU have done, ‘clinton’? I know:

Zilch. Zero. Nothing.

EverKarl,

Long time…..hope all is well - no, Wonderful - in your world.

had the passengers on the plane been embittered, fearful, suspicious post 9/11 patriots what would have been different?

can you recommend a course of action that will save us next time around? if you cant dont feel bad, all the kings horses and men cant seem to come up with a viable solution either. whats important is that we stay afraid and angry.

so EverKarl, while your federal government works on solving all the problems in the world, including yours, you stay bitter and afraid until they do.

if anything the story of those passengers shows what a bunch of unprepared people just living their lives can do to save their own asses (yes and even the lives of other, i dont deny some heroism. but i hope the supposition is not that all these people were patriots motivated by love of the motherland.)

clinton, everyone on the plane died. They did not save their own asses, as you so eloquently put it. I’m sure they hoped they could. But if anyone doubts the need to remember 9/11, you need look no further than clinton’s comment, not just the part quoted above, but this too:

this is what americans should do. we can call it “forget” if you like. we should go in unembittered, calm, happy, open and just live our lives. when it really comes down to it thats all we can do.

The passengers on United 93 can’t do that. Nor can their families. Nor can a bunch of other people whose great crime was to be in the WTC that day. Nor can their families. Ignorance is bliss, until some fanatic kills you or someone you love just for living that “open” life, free of an imposed Islamic fundamentalist theocracy.

And on the off-chance that you have trouble grasping those simple points:

*SMACK*

“Ethics: Is there a difference between ethically right and wrong actions (or values, or institutions)? If so, what is that difference? Which actions are right, and which wrong? Do divine commands make right acts right, or is their rightness based on something else? Are there standards of rightness that are absolute, or are all such standards relative to particular cultures?”

Now, think about the answers that the Islamic extremists would give to these questions. Perhaps, not unlike Christian fundamentalists, they would refuse to answer, preferring to let their religious beliefs speak for them.

“The church says the earth is flat, but I know that it is round, for I have seen the shadow on the moon, and I have more faith in a shadow than in the church.” - Ferdinand Magellan

Leon says

I cringe every time I here things like “they fought evil”…evil doesn’t exist, nor does “good”.

Cue the moral relativism. Terrorist murderers aren’t evil, bad, or wrong in Leon’s world, just different. If you really believe that, especially in the context of 9/11, then you definitely qualify as one of the biggest dumbasses I’ve run across.

In my Katrina addled mind, I completely agree. Unfortunately, there are things gumption alone cannot fix

Great.

Just what we needed.

I just don’t know how we survived the gap between Passion of the Christ and Farenheit 9/11 and now.

And, I too was struck by the portrayal of the European on the flight. Given that certain elements are fictionalized, I thought this particular depiction was gratuitous.

I also had misgivings about the partially sympathetic portrayal of the hijackers, especially notable in the plaintive eyes of the handsome actor cast as the pilot. Would we have ever depicted Japanese kamikaze in the same manner? (Of course, I have not seen the most recent film version of Pearl Harbor where is was reputed they softened the depiction of the Japanese.)

Please explain in more detail.

Which raises an interesting point– has anyone commented on the fact that the one passenger on United 93 who objects to the plan of stopping the terrorists, even to the extent of trying to collaborate with their side and appease them, is the guy with the Dutch or German accent? I was amazed by this, it seemed such a Mark Steyn strong America-feckless Europe moment in the movie, yet I haven’t seen anyone comment on it.

And frankly, I did not sign on to your endless war. I do not go around afraid that we will lose, or that we will forget or fail to understand the “meaning of 9/11.” We are right, and they are wrong and we will prevail. And if you have doubts about that, I suggest the resolve that needs stiffening is yours, not mine. I am not forgetting, and I don’t need a Hollywood exercise in fastidious re-creation to make the point. One day, I may see United 93. But at this point, probably not. And as long as I have to put up with hectoring, lecturing critics, I plan to avoid it like the plague.

One thing you learn living in both America and Western Europe (as I have). The Western Europeans take their security and wealth for granted in a way the Americans simply do not.