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	<title>Comments on: Attack of the Carrmudgeons</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 02:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-62482</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 03 Jun 2006 10:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-62482</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Real neutrality requires a system that does not allow any one participant to slow or quicken delivery of packets to their destination.&lt;/i&gt;

Pardon my while I laugh my ass off. On the Internet, every packet slows down every other packet in any part of its path. That's the nature of packet switching, and the guy who sends the most packets degrades other users the most. The point of priority schemes is to limit the degradation that high-volume users cause low-volume users. Google bottlenecks my traffic today, but with a priority-based network, I can limit the damage it does to my voice and video streams. That's the way it should be.

Regulation is part technical and part policy, and if you're ignorant in either area you should stay out of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Real neutrality requires a system that does not allow any one participant to slow or quicken delivery of packets to their destination.</i></p>
<p>Pardon my while I laugh my ass off. On the Internet, every packet slows down every other packet in any part of its path. That&#8217;s the nature of packet switching, and the guy who sends the most packets degrades other users the most. The point of priority schemes is to limit the degradation that high-volume users cause low-volume users. Google bottlenecks my traffic today, but with a priority-based network, I can limit the damage it does to my voice and video streams. That&#8217;s the way it should be.</p>
<p>Regulation is part technical and part policy, and if you&#8217;re ignorant in either area you should stay out of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Toblerone2</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-59648</link>
		<dc:creator>Toblerone2</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 May 2006 20:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-59648</guid>
		<description>Richard Bennett seems to think that net neutrality is a technical issue.  But it's not.  We can devise different traffic types with different priorities and run them over the same data pipe.  Real neutrality requires a system that does not allow any one participant to slow or quicken delivery of packets to their destination.  But this can still operate with limits as to which traffic types should take precedence over others.  I might want VoIP and Video downloads to have precedence over email and other static web pages.  We can invent different protocols for each traffic type, as long as ALL providers use the same protocol for their type.  

Now, if a company, say AT&#38;T, decides that it will bottleneck its competitor's traffic, or promote its own in some way, then we need to evaluate if this company should be allowed to be a large part of the internet backbone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard Bennett seems to think that net neutrality is a technical issue.  But it&#8217;s not.  We can devise different traffic types with different priorities and run them over the same data pipe.  Real neutrality requires a system that does not allow any one participant to slow or quicken delivery of packets to their destination.  But this can still operate with limits as to which traffic types should take precedence over others.  I might want VoIP and Video downloads to have precedence over email and other static web pages.  We can invent different protocols for each traffic type, as long as ALL providers use the same protocol for their type.  </p>
<p>Now, if a company, say AT&amp;T, decides that it will bottleneck its competitor&#8217;s traffic, or promote its own in some way, then we need to evaluate if this company should be allowed to be a large part of the internet backbone.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-58298</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 May 2006 02:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-58298</guid>
		<description>Quite on-topic, Jeff. In this post you wrote: "Curmudgeons defend orthodoxy, power, and tradition" and I addressed that point in the context of an issue on which you've taken that side. 

The faux neutrality bigots are opposing progress, new technology, that sort of thing, just like the candle-makers opposed electric lights.

So who's the curmudgeon, Newmark or McCurry?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quite on-topic, Jeff. In this post you wrote: &#8220;Curmudgeons defend orthodoxy, power, and tradition&#8221; and I addressed that point in the context of an issue on which you&#8217;ve taken that side. </p>
<p>The faux neutrality bigots are opposing progress, new technology, that sort of thing, just like the candle-makers opposed electric lights.</p>
<p>So who&#8217;s the curmudgeon, Newmark or McCurry?</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Kellogg</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-57257</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Kellogg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 02:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-57257</guid>
		<description>Richard,

I don't think that phrase means what you think it means.

Jeff,

Carr is more a grump than a curmudgeon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think that phrase means what you think it means.</p>
<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Carr is more a grump than a curmudgeon.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-57237</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 02:09:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-57237</guid>
		<description>Richard, 
A bit off topic, eh? Or are you just wanting to join the curmudgeon club? I see nothing in this post about net neutrality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Richard,<br />
A bit off topic, eh? Or are you just wanting to join the curmudgeon club? I see nothing in this post about net neutrality.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-57224</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 May 2006 01:42:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-57224</guid>
		<description>To amplify on my last comment about the "neutrality" bigots and their implicit desire to block progress in the operation of the Internet, here's a quote from Tim Wu, the law professor who coined the term "net neutrality".

&lt;i&gt;As the universe of applications has grown, the original conception of IP neutrality has dated: for IP was only neutral among data applications. Internet networks tend to favor, as a class, applications insensitive to latency (delay) or jitter (signal distortion). Consider that it doesnâ€™t matter whether an email arrives now or a few milliseconds later. But it certainly matters for applications that want to carry voice or video. &lt;b&gt;In a universe of applications, that includes both latency-sensitive and insensitive applications, it is difficult to regard the IP suite as truly neutral as among all applications.&lt;/b&gt;

This point is closely linked to questions of structural separation. The technical reason IP favors data applications is that it lacks any universal mechanism to offer a quality of service (QoS) guarantee. It doesnâ€™t insist that data arrive at any time or place. Instead, IP generally adopts a â€œbest-effortâ€ approach: it says, deliver the packets as fast as you can, which over a typical end-to-end connection may range from a basic 56K connection at the ends, to the precisely timed gigabits of bandwidth available on backbone SONET links. IP doesnâ€™t care: it runs over everything. But as a consequence, it implicitly disfavors applications that do care.&lt;/i&gt;

Contrast that to the claim by Craig Newmark that the advocates of the Sensenbrenner/ Lofgren Internet regulation bill seek only to preserve a "level playing field" for all applications, bearing in mind that the bill in question bans QoS mechanisms.

Is Newmark a liar or merely an idiot? You decide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To amplify on my last comment about the &#8220;neutrality&#8221; bigots and their implicit desire to block progress in the operation of the Internet, here&#8217;s a quote from Tim Wu, the law professor who coined the term &#8220;net neutrality&#8221;.</p>
<p><i>As the universe of applications has grown, the original conception of IP neutrality has dated: for IP was only neutral among data applications. Internet networks tend to favor, as a class, applications insensitive to latency (delay) or jitter (signal distortion). Consider that it doesnâ€™t matter whether an email arrives now or a few milliseconds later. But it certainly matters for applications that want to carry voice or video. <b>In a universe of applications, that includes both latency-sensitive and insensitive applications, it is difficult to regard the IP suite as truly neutral as among all applications.</b></p>
<p>This point is closely linked to questions of structural separation. The technical reason IP favors data applications is that it lacks any universal mechanism to offer a quality of service (QoS) guarantee. It doesnâ€™t insist that data arrive at any time or place. Instead, IP generally adopts a â€œbest-effortâ€ approach: it says, deliver the packets as fast as you can, which over a typical end-to-end connection may range from a basic 56K connection at the ends, to the precisely timed gigabits of bandwidth available on backbone SONET links. IP doesnâ€™t care: it runs over everything. But as a consequence, it implicitly disfavors applications that do care.</i></p>
<p>Contrast that to the claim by Craig Newmark that the advocates of the Sensenbrenner/ Lofgren Internet regulation bill seek only to preserve a &#8220;level playing field&#8221; for all applications, bearing in mind that the bill in question bans QoS mechanisms.</p>
<p>Is Newmark a liar or merely an idiot? You decide.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-57061</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 19:53:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-57061</guid>
		<description>"Net neutrality" proponents are opposed to progress in the basic capability set of the Internet. They're the most fearful and ignorant bunch I've ever encountered.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Net neutrality&#8221; proponents are opposed to progress in the basic capability set of the Internet. They&#8217;re the most fearful and ignorant bunch I&#8217;ve ever encountered.</p>
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		<title>By: David Spector</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/attack-of-the-carrmudgeons/#comment-56955</link>
		<dc:creator>David Spector</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 May 2006 15:23:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1577#comment-56955</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

H.G. Wells put it best when he said:

"&lt;em&gt;New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,  he humiliating question arises, 'Why then are you not taking part in  them?'&lt;/em&gt;"

regards,
  David</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>H.G. Wells put it best when he said:</p>
<p>&#8220;<em>New and stirring things are belittled because if they are not belittled,  he humiliating question arises, &#8216;Why then are you not taking part in  them?&#8217;</em>&#8221;</p>
<p>regards,<br />
  David</p>
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