Comments on: More on books: fiction v. nonfiction http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/ by Jeff Jarvis Wed, 03 Dec 2008 07:24:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: robhyndman.com » Blog Archive » The Future of Books http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-64702 robhyndman.com » Blog Archive » The Future of Books Tue, 06 Jun 2006 10:36:23 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-64702 [...] To be fair, Jarvis himself has noted that these speculations about the future of books likely do not apply to fiction: Purcell and one of his commenters also quite rightly challenge me on whether my own speculation about books applies to fiction. I think much of it doesn’t. I was never one of those who believed that technology would allow us to create our own endings to movies or books. Stories are the creation of an author; they do have their own beginnings and ends. [...] [...] To be fair, Jarvis himself has noted that these speculations about the future of books likely do not apply to fiction: Purcell and one of his commenters also quite rightly challenge me on whether my own speculation about books applies to fiction. I think much of it doesn’t. I was never one of those who believed that technology would allow us to create our own endings to movies or books. Stories are the creation of an author; they do have their own beginnings and ends. [...]

]]> By: Brad Campbell http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-60059 Brad Campbell Wed, 31 May 2006 03:33:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-60059 Works of fiction are books in themselves and generally do not need external links. However, I can see a use for them, particularly in older books. Sometimes meanings change and references which would have made sense at the time no longer make sense. It would be nice to have a dictionary of sorts to help get the most out of the books. Works of fiction are books in themselves and generally do not need external links. However, I can see a use for them, particularly in older books. Sometimes meanings change and references which would have made sense at the time no longer make sense. It would be nice to have a dictionary of sorts to help get the most out of the books.

]]> By: Jeff Hess http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-59659 Jeff Hess Tue, 30 May 2006 20:23:43 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-59659 Shalom Jeff, In general I agree with you. Books that are storage media for information are a waste of paper, recycled or otherwise. I don't know how any of the encyclopedia/almanac publishers expect to stay in business. In discussing this with some friends over the weekend we talked about the reasoned work of non-fiction; the book that is about something, but is not about facts. You cannot cherrypick information from such a book. Points of view, observations and realities remain subjective. I think it is only that universe of books that deal in objective information that can truly be said to be in danger. One of the reasons I say that is because paper remains the most stable information platform we have. And with the increasing paranoia surrounding information piracy, we can expect distributors to make in increasingly difficult to migrate information across media, dooming in some cases information not deemed valuable enough to transfer by the distributor. B'shalom, Jeff Hess Shalom Jeff,

In general I agree with you. Books that are storage media for information are a waste of paper, recycled or otherwise. I don’t know how any of the encyclopedia/almanac publishers expect to stay in business.

In discussing this with some friends over the weekend we talked about the reasoned work of non-fiction; the book that is about something, but is not about facts. You cannot cherrypick information from such a book.

Points of view, observations and realities remain subjective. I think it is only that universe of books that deal in objective information that can truly be said to be in danger.

One of the reasons I say that is because paper remains the most stable information platform we have. And with the increasing paranoia surrounding information piracy, we can expect distributors to make in increasingly difficult to migrate information across media, dooming in some cases information not deemed valuable enough to transfer by the distributor.

B’shalom,

Jeff Hess

]]> By: Hepzeeba http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-57171 Hepzeeba Sat, 27 May 2006 23:28:01 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-57171 There are many thriving online communities and sites devoted to spreading the word about little-known works of fiction, non-fiction, works by foreign authors (not translated into English), etc. There's a huge conversation about books taking place online. The lit world has yet to acknowledge it. The same lit world has yet to acknowledge that Bush is president, that computers make your life and your job easier, and that the world isn't flat, however. Plus, they're not the ones who are holding back the revolution. It all revolves around licensing issues: who's gonna get paid for the content, how much, and how. And digitizing your back catalogue is a huge investment. Google has the money. Publishers don't. Yes: hands-off fiction. But I think you'll find that you want to keep hands off many non-fiction books as well: everything from the big biographies to nonfiction narratives to memoirs to popular histories, etc. Also, authors will want to keep their works whole. Don't underestimate that, or their reasons. Some of it really is art, and not meant for mashing-up. And it is their work, and the decision should be theirs. Which doesn't mean all of it shouldn't be available digitally, in various formats, and that there shouldn't also be value-added stuff (maybe like the supplementary materials PBS offers on its Frontline website) and that people shouldn't start to apply themselves and start thinking about and creating the book world they want to inhabit in the future. Apparently, Carly Fiorina had many choice words for publishers, telling them that they will not be able to hold back the tide and should stop trying. She also said some really stupid things about the editorial process, though, so she may have shot herself in the foot. There are many thriving online communities and sites devoted to spreading the word about little-known works of fiction, non-fiction, works by foreign authors (not translated into English), etc. There’s a huge conversation about books taking place online. The lit world has yet to acknowledge it.

The same lit world has yet to acknowledge that Bush is president, that computers make your life and your job easier, and that the world isn’t flat, however. Plus, they’re not the ones who are holding back the revolution. It all revolves around licensing issues: who’s gonna get paid for the content, how much, and how. And digitizing your back catalogue is a huge investment. Google has the money. Publishers don’t.

Yes: hands-off fiction. But I think you’ll find that you want to keep hands off many non-fiction books as well: everything from the big biographies to nonfiction narratives to memoirs to popular histories, etc. Also, authors will want to keep their works whole. Don’t underestimate that, or their reasons. Some of it really is art, and not meant for mashing-up. And it is their work, and the decision should be theirs.

Which doesn’t mean all of it shouldn’t be available digitally, in various formats, and that there shouldn’t also be value-added stuff (maybe like the supplementary materials PBS offers on its Frontline website) and that people shouldn’t start to apply themselves and start thinking about and creating the book world they want to inhabit in the future.

Apparently, Carly Fiorina had many choice words for publishers, telling them that they will not be able to hold back the tide and should stop trying. She also said some really stupid things about the editorial process, though, so she may have shot herself in the foot.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-57047 Jeff Jarvis Sat, 27 May 2006 19:14:53 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-57047 Eoin, I think it's a chicken-egg matter. Authors who have audiences now can use their books to create and maintain relationships with readers. But, you're right, in a world without marketing by publishers -- oh, we're there already, aren't we? -- then others will act as middlemen. Or then again, maybe not: Maybe in fiction, if authors are online, links (recommendations from friends and real people) can become a powerful force as well.... Eoin,
I think it’s a chicken-egg matter. Authors who have audiences now can use their books to create and maintain relationships with readers. But, you’re right, in a world without marketing by publishers — oh, we’re there already, aren’t we? — then others will act as middlemen. Or then again, maybe not: Maybe in fiction, if authors are online, links (recommendations from friends and real people) can become a powerful force as well….

]]> By: Eoin Purcell http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/05/27/more-on-books-fiction-v-nonfiction/#comment-56974 Eoin Purcell Sat, 27 May 2006 16:13:34 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1578#comment-56974 Thanks for the shout out Jeff. One minor quibble I do have with your perspective is a concern that although, as you say, authors have a new relationship with the audience, this is mediated by search engines and sellers like Amazon. I fear greatly that these services will become the new gatekeepers. Certainly the profit motive would encourage them to do so. It is the reason big Publishers are so jealous of the likes of Google Book Search, it could directly affect their profits and control of content. It would be a shame if the internet and technology liberated us from one set of gatekeepers and prepared the path for another set to take up where the last few left off. Thanks for the shout out Jeff.

One minor quibble I do have with your perspective is a concern that although, as you say, authors have a new relationship with the audience, this is mediated by search engines and sellers like Amazon. I fear greatly that these services will become the new gatekeepers. Certainly the profit motive would encourage them to do so. It is the reason big Publishers are so jealous of the likes of Google Book Search, it could directly affect their profits and control of content.

It would be a shame if the internet and technology liberated us from one set of gatekeepers and prepared the path for another set to take up where the last few left off.

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