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	<title>Comments on: Linked</title>
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	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
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		<title>By: Hespos.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Do No Evil, My Ass</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-392465</link>
		<dc:creator>Hespos.com &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Do No Evil, My Ass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Apr 2009 12:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-392465</guid>
		<description>[...] will be people who try to game the system, which presents us with a metric shitload of problems.  I took some heat from Jeff Jarvis when it came time for Q&amp;A, and if I recall correctly, he said Google&#8217;s democratization of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will be people who try to game the system, which presents us with a metric shitload of problems.  I took some heat from Jeff Jarvis when it came time for Q&amp;A, and if I recall correctly, he said Google&#8217;s democratization of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On China</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-74513</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; On China</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 16:48:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-74513</guid>
		<description>[...] But at last week&#8217;s Hyperlinked Society conference, I spent a little time with people who know one helluva lot more about this issue than I do, including Xiao Qiang of the UC-Berkeley China Internet Project and Ethan Zuckerman of Global Voices. I won&#8217;t attempt to say what they say for fear of misquoting them. I&#8217;ll just give you my own thoughts. First, I&#8217;ll try to capture the back-and-forth we see on China and the internet: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But at last week&#8217;s Hyperlinked Society conference, I spent a little time with people who know one helluva lot more about this issue than I do, including Xiao Qiang of the UC-Berkeley China Internet Project and Ethan Zuckerman of Global Voices. I won&#8217;t attempt to say what they say for fear of misquoting them. I&#8217;ll just give you my own thoughts. First, I&#8217;ll try to capture the back-and-forth we see on China and the internet: [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Parallel lives: media and telecom</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68369</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Parallel lives: media and telecom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jun 2006 14:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68369</guid>
		<description>[...] Bell Labs, of course, has learned how to innovate in an open-source world. They invented Unix there and saw its value increase with the contributions of people. Similarly, newspapers must find open ways to work with citizen journalists. [See also yesterday&#8217;s discussion at the hyperlinked society conference on the competitive, complementary, or destructive &#8212; take your pick &#8212; relationship of amateurs to professionals.] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Bell Labs, of course, has learned how to innovate in an open-source world. They invented Unix there and saw its value increase with the contributions of people. Similarly, newspapers must find open ways to work with citizen journalists. [See also yesterday&#8217;s discussion at the hyperlinked society conference on the competitive, complementary, or destructive &#8212; take your pick &#8212; relationship of amateurs to professionals.] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Halavais &#187; Hyperlinked Society: [adult swim] v. YouTube</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68102</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Halavais &#187; Hyperlinked Society: [adult swim] v. YouTube</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2006 23:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68102</guid>
		<description>[...] The challenge came from Jack Wakshlag, from Turner, to Jeff Jarvis, of BuzzMachine and other climes. The example given was that it was stupid to talk about the &#8220;immense popularity&#8221; of YouTube when the audience numbers were still miniscule compared to new cable offerings. Adult Swim, the current #1 total-day delivery for young adults (esp. males), was given as an example. Any success of YouTube would need to be measured against this, and the implication was that it wouldn&#8217;t come close. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The challenge came from Jack Wakshlag, from Turner, to Jeff Jarvis, of BuzzMachine and other climes. The example given was that it was stupid to talk about the &#8220;immense popularity&#8221; of YouTube when the audience numbers were still miniscule compared to new cable offerings. Adult Swim, the current #1 total-day delivery for young adults (esp. males), was given as an example. Any success of YouTube would need to be measured against this, and the implication was that it wouldn&#8217;t come close. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; An Oxford debate</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68061</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; An Oxford debate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jun 2006 21:36:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-68061</guid>
		<description>[...] Next, Rusbridger takes Dean Esmay to task for taking Russbridger to task for saying in an earlier speech that he hears no bloggers volunteering to go to Iraq. Russbridger said he saw no names. Esmay listed three: Michael Totten, Michael Yon, Steven Vincent. I&#8217;ll add Christopher Allbriton. This back-and-forth on the facts would be best served with reciprocal links; that is part of the infrastructure of interactive news that needs work. Russbridger acknowledges the work of Iraqi bloggers but then raises the old saw: Blogs are not a &#8220;substitute for the mainstream media if you want a rounded view of Iraq, including the daily atrocities, the geo-politics, the local politics, the military and intelligence aspects of the conflict and the human rights implications.&#8221; No one &#8212; or next to no one &#8212; says they are a substitute. They are complementary (as we discussed at the hyperlinked-society conference last week and at the earlier Museum of Television &amp; Radio Media Center confab &#8212; see Jay Rosen in the last paragraph here). It is time to get past the us-v-them red herring and to start working hard to see just how complementary these camps can be. Russbridger concludes: In a rapidly converged world newspapers will probably have to ask themselves whether they remain a purely text medium. And, as if this werenâ€™t enough, they are going to have to face the fact that younger readers, especially, are questioning previously accepted notions of journalistic authority, that audiences are fragmenting and that many people are increasingly finding non-conventional news sources a valuable addition, if not a ready substitute, for mainstream media. Newspapers have to decide how much they embrace these new forms of discourse and dissemination or whether they stand apart from them. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Next, Rusbridger takes Dean Esmay to task for taking Russbridger to task for saying in an earlier speech that he hears no bloggers volunteering to go to Iraq. Russbridger said he saw no names. Esmay listed three: Michael Totten, Michael Yon, Steven Vincent. I&#8217;ll add Christopher Allbriton. This back-and-forth on the facts would be best served with reciprocal links; that is part of the infrastructure of interactive news that needs work. Russbridger acknowledges the work of Iraqi bloggers but then raises the old saw: Blogs are not a &#8220;substitute for the mainstream media if you want a rounded view of Iraq, including the daily atrocities, the geo-politics, the local politics, the military and intelligence aspects of the conflict and the human rights implications.&#8221; No one &#8212; or next to no one &#8212; says they are a substitute. They are complementary (as we discussed at the hyperlinked-society conference last week and at the earlier Museum of Television &#38; Radio Media Center confab &#8212; see Jay Rosen in the last paragraph here). It is time to get past the us-v-them red herring and to start working hard to see just how complementary these camps can be. Russbridger concludes: In a rapidly converged world newspapers will probably have to ask themselves whether they remain a purely text medium. And, as if this werenâ€™t enough, they are going to have to face the fact that younger readers, especially, are questioning previously accepted notions of journalistic authority, that audiences are fragmenting and that many people are increasingly finding non-conventional news sources a valuable addition, if not a ready substitute, for mainstream media. Newspapers have to decide how much they embrace these new forms of discourse and dissemination or whether they stand apart from them. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Konvention</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67489</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Konvention</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jun 2006 15:33:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67489</guid>
		<description>[...] At the end of the linking thing in Philly yesterday, Jay Rosen was headed off to Vegas to be on a panel at the Kos konvention, where about a thousand online and offline political machers are showing up &#8212; including big names who want to curry favor with the Kos krowd. As we discussed this, David Weinberger shook his head, recalling someone at one of the panels that day who&#8217;d said that bloggers aren&#8217;t influencing politics. The Kos thing is the (latest) proof that they are. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] At the end of the linking thing in Philly yesterday, Jay Rosen was headed off to Vegas to be on a panel at the Kos konvention, where about a thousand online and offline political machers are showing up &#8212; including big names who want to curry favor with the Kos krowd. As we discussed this, David Weinberger shook his head, recalling someone at one of the panels that day who&#8217;d said that bloggers aren&#8217;t influencing politics. The Kos thing is the (latest) proof that they are. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Batista</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67145</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Batista</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 21:22:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67145</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I &lt;a href=&quot;http://attentiontrust.org/node/251&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;posted this&lt;/a&gt; at AttentionTrust in response to your comments on links and Google:

[The ad guy/blogger and Jeff are] both wrong. No matter what you think of Google now, calling PageRank &quot;evil&quot; is absurd--it was a huge step forward that helped us understand what we&#039;re paying attention to and, as Jeff notes, what we value. But today PageRank and all its imitations are fatally flawed--links and pageviews don&#039;t necessarily equal actual attention (and to pick up Doc Searls&#039; argument, they tell us almost nothing about actual intentions). Of course they still work well enough for our current search needs, but let&#039;s look a few years down the road (keeping in mind that the amount of information being produced is doubling every 2-3 years, and less than two percent of it is online right now, &lt;a href=&quot;http://attentiontrust.org/node/247&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;according to Alex Barnett&lt;/a&gt;.

There&#039;s a noticeable amount of crap gumming up the system already--trackback spam, anyone? What&#039;s it going to be like in ten years when (if Alex is right) we&#039;ll be churning out 160 million terabytes of data on an annual basis and presumably a lot more than two percent of it will be online? Think counting links will do us much good then?

We need something better than links to represent where our attention is going and thereby assign value to everything in our information-based economy. We don&#039;t need it today or even next year, but sitting around talking about how useful links still are won&#039;t get us anywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I <a href="http://attentiontrust.org/node/251" rel="nofollow">posted this</a> at AttentionTrust in response to your comments on links and Google:</p>
<p>[The ad guy/blogger and Jeff are] both wrong. No matter what you think of Google now, calling PageRank &#8220;evil&#8221; is absurd&#8211;it was a huge step forward that helped us understand what we&#8217;re paying attention to and, as Jeff notes, what we value. But today PageRank and all its imitations are fatally flawed&#8211;links and pageviews don&#8217;t necessarily equal actual attention (and to pick up Doc Searls&#8217; argument, they tell us almost nothing about actual intentions). Of course they still work well enough for our current search needs, but let&#8217;s look a few years down the road (keeping in mind that the amount of information being produced is doubling every 2-3 years, and less than two percent of it is online right now, <a href="http://attentiontrust.org/node/247" rel="nofollow">according to Alex Barnett</a>.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a noticeable amount of crap gumming up the system already&#8211;trackback spam, anyone? What&#8217;s it going to be like in ten years when (if Alex is right) we&#8217;ll be churning out 160 million terabytes of data on an annual basis and presumably a lot more than two percent of it will be online? Think counting links will do us much good then?</p>
<p>We need something better than links to represent where our attention is going and thereby assign value to everything in our information-based economy. We don&#8217;t need it today or even next year, but sitting around talking about how useful links still are won&#8217;t get us anywhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Rick</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67042</link>
		<dc:creator>Rick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 16:01:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67042</guid>
		<description>As the &quot;owners of the pipes&quot; (didn&#039;t the US gov&#039;t commission/create the internet?) achieve success at asserting control over content, and the Attorney General presses for legalization of &quot;monitoring&quot; and eventually content control, &quot;old media&quot; will breath easier and the virtual commons we now enjoy will become as barren as any other venue managed by self-interested entities whose primary, if not sole, purpose is moving money from our pockets into those of stockholders.

The interesting stories will be how, having tasted freedom of expression absent arbitrary editorial control, American internet users (and those whose countries subjugate to Washington whims) respond with alternatives.  Could the world of mail-exchanging BBS&#039;s that phone each other in the night return, to bypass the internet censors?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As the &#8220;owners of the pipes&#8221; (didn&#8217;t the US gov&#8217;t commission/create the internet?) achieve success at asserting control over content, and the Attorney General presses for legalization of &#8220;monitoring&#8221; and eventually content control, &#8220;old media&#8221; will breath easier and the virtual commons we now enjoy will become as barren as any other venue managed by self-interested entities whose primary, if not sole, purpose is moving money from our pockets into those of stockholders.</p>
<p>The interesting stories will be how, having tasted freedom of expression absent arbitrary editorial control, American internet users (and those whose countries subjugate to Washington whims) respond with alternatives.  Could the world of mail-exchanging BBS&#8217;s that phone each other in the night return, to bypass the internet censors?</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Feinman</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67001</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Feinman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jun 2006 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/06/09/linked/#comment-67001</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it amazing how many conferences there are talking about new media which continue to use the old media technique of flying a bunch of people halfway around the world to sit in a big room and listen to old fashioned lectures (with or without powerpoint slides).

I&#039;ll really believe the revolution has arrived when these people start to use the technqiues they claim to be experts on themselves. This is not unique to media pundits, the dailyKos web site is also holding a real face-to-face conference this weekend in, of all places, Las Vegas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn&#8217;t it amazing how many conferences there are talking about new media which continue to use the old media technique of flying a bunch of people halfway around the world to sit in a big room and listen to old fashioned lectures (with or without powerpoint slides).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll really believe the revolution has arrived when these people start to use the technqiues they claim to be experts on themselves. This is not unique to media pundits, the dailyKos web site is also holding a real face-to-face conference this weekend in, of all places, Las Vegas.</p>
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