Comments on: Role playing http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/ by Jeff Jarvis Sun, 12 Oct 2008 23:35:36 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: ashok http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82406 ashok Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:49:40 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82406 Mr. Kellogg, I can honestly say I don't understand your thought about the killing things and taking stuff, as it pertains to the media. I guess you mean that the media is power hungry in some way? Mr. Kellogg, I can honestly say I don’t understand your thought about the killing things and taking stuff, as it pertains to the media. I guess you mean that the media is power hungry in some way?

]]> By: SimplyTired http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82397 SimplyTired Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:37:26 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82397 "ashok" - I am impressed, seriously, by your candor and not resorting to flaming. Class act. SimplyTired “ashok” - I am impressed, seriously, by your candor and not resorting to flaming. Class act.

SimplyTired

]]> By: SimplyTired http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82394 SimplyTired Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:33:02 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82394 <i>Simply Tired, Who died and made you Jeff Jarvis? </i> No one. Actually, now that I read <i>your</i> comment, I agree with it. Journalism, <i>as it is prominently practised today </i> and I am only a consumer of it, does indeed feel like "kill things and take their stuff," and not only that, but hound like hyenas before the kill. But then when did it ever feel otherwise, I wonder. Been reading some literature on how press/media was during Civil War and that's no solace either. Sometimes I wonder if the institution of decent public debate has died after the Federalist papers, but that's not journalism, just simply makes us wish it were so. SimplyTired. Simply Tired,

Who died and made you Jeff Jarvis?

No one. Actually, now that I read your comment, I agree with it. Journalism, as it is prominently practised today and I am only a consumer of it, does indeed feel like “kill things and take their stuff,” and not only that, but hound like hyenas before the kill. But then when did it ever feel otherwise, I wonder. Been reading some literature on how press/media was during Civil War and that’s no solace either. Sometimes I wonder if the institution of decent public debate has died after the Federalist papers, but that’s not journalism, just simply makes us wish it were so.

SimplyTired.

]]> By: ashok http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82393 ashok Sat, 01 Jul 2006 03:31:14 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82393 Mr. Kellogg - that same criticism can be levelled at me. And it is true that I engaged in a personal attack. I stand by my words. Mr. Kellogg - that same criticism can be levelled at me. And it is true that I engaged in a personal attack.

I stand by my words.

]]> By: Alan Kellogg http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82329 Alan Kellogg Sat, 01 Jul 2006 01:13:18 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82329 Simply Tired, Who died and made you Jeff Jarvis? Simply Tired,

Who died and made you Jeff Jarvis?

]]> By: SimplyTired http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82289 SimplyTired Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:43:18 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82289 <i>I consider your tone to be inherently unreasonable, and to be the product of an immaturity (”I might be right, so let me be loud and boorish”) that makes me wonder whether freedom is a good thing. Your character is suspect, inasmuch you choose to represent your worst side here, while the rest of us are working to make this place better. </i> Nice going "ashok"...talking about someone's character and all. If this is how "the rest of" you work, take a walk. You are not welcome here if you resort to personal attacks like this. --SimplyTired I consider your tone to be inherently unreasonable, and to be the product of an immaturity (”I might be right, so let me be loud and boorish”) that makes me wonder whether freedom is a good thing. Your character is suspect, inasmuch you choose to represent your worst side here, while the rest of us are working to make this place better.

Nice going “ashok”…talking about someone’s character and all. If this is how “the rest of” you work, take a walk. You are not welcome here if you resort to personal attacks like this.

–SimplyTired

]]> By: ashok http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82268 ashok Fri, 30 Jun 2006 23:21:00 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82268 Mr. Rusch, that's too vicious to be accurate. If there's such a thing as a good remix or bad remix, then there's probably some element of skill involved. The issue of people not caring about user-generated content is a separate question. A lot of the Internet, for me, is pearls before swine. When I first came online, I was just blown away - still am blown away - by a place where I can get every poem by Emily Dickinsons and Yeats; see top-notch digitial photography generated by budding artists; read some incredible essays - I remember one by Freeman Dyson in NYRB where he used the analytic/synthetic distinction to argue that science is inexahustible; and showcase <a href="http://www.writingup.com/ashok/the_uses_of_the_mind_on_emily_dickinsons_what_i_can_do_i_will" rel="nofollow">my own work</a>, which I take a lot of pride in, but you seem to think is crap merely by being generated by me, a "user." Mr. Jarvis constantly talks about how this Internet thing is empowering. I know I agree with him in sentiment, and that we probably agree on some standards. The issues of disagreement - on what "free speech" is, exactly, and what conditions exactly democracy flourishes best under - are issues reasonable people can disagree on. I consider your tone to be inherently unreasonable, and to be the product of an immaturity ("I might be right, so let me be loud and boorish") that makes me wonder whether freedom is a good thing. Your character is suspect, inasmuch you choose to represent your worst side here, while the rest of us are working to make this place better. Mr. Rusch, that’s too vicious to be accurate. If there’s such a thing as a good remix or bad remix, then there’s probably some element of skill involved.

The issue of people not caring about user-generated content is a separate question. A lot of the Internet, for me, is pearls before swine. When I first came online, I was just blown away - still am blown away - by a place where I can get every poem by Emily Dickinsons and Yeats; see top-notch digitial photography generated by budding artists; read some incredible essays - I remember one by Freeman Dyson in NYRB where he used the analytic/synthetic distinction to argue that science is inexahustible; and showcase my own work, which I take a lot of pride in, but you seem to think is crap merely by being generated by me, a “user.”

Mr. Jarvis constantly talks about how this Internet thing is empowering. I know I agree with him in sentiment, and that we probably agree on some standards. The issues of disagreement - on what “free speech” is, exactly, and what conditions exactly democracy flourishes best under - are issues reasonable people can disagree on.

I consider your tone to be inherently unreasonable, and to be the product of an immaturity (”I might be right, so let me be loud and boorish”) that makes me wonder whether freedom is a good thing. Your character is suspect, inasmuch you choose to represent your worst side here, while the rest of us are working to make this place better.

]]> By: Ed Rusch http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-82035 Ed Rusch Fri, 30 Jun 2006 16:52:29 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-82035 Remixing is not a skill. And there are gatekeepers galore. A remixer like yourself has a paltry audience (thanks for letting us all see your site stats, Jeff); a gatekeeper like a large daily has an audience literally millions of times larger than yours. That's why user-generated content is already the buzzword of yesterday and a doomed concept. The vast majority of people don't give a crap about your remix. Remixing is not a skill. And there are gatekeepers galore. A remixer like yourself has a paltry audience (thanks for letting us all see your site stats, Jeff); a gatekeeper like a large daily has an audience literally millions of times larger than yours.

That’s why user-generated content is already the buzzword of yesterday and a doomed concept. The vast majority of people don’t give a crap about your remix.

]]> By: Alan Kellogg http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81932 Alan Kellogg Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:22:05 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81932 In journalism today the goal is more like, kill things and take their stuff. In journalism today the goal is more like, kill things and take their stuff.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81642 Jeff Jarvis Fri, 30 Jun 2006 00:17:25 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81642 Andrew: Sometimes, it won't be about writing but packaging, linking, remixing. Andrew: Sometimes, it won’t be about writing but packaging, linking, remixing.

]]> By: ashok http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81598 ashok Thu, 29 Jun 2006 22:08:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81598 I like your list, but what is the standard for "education?" Is it only working with that which consitutes the present and hopefully the future? And if education is necessarily some sort of engagement with the past, what ought to be demanded of journalists in terms of their own education.... I like your list, but what is the standard for “education?” Is it only working with that which consitutes the present and hopefully the future?

And if education is necessarily some sort of engagement with the past, what ought to be demanded of journalists in terms of their own education….

]]> By: Dead2.0 » About Being a Contrarian http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81564 Dead2.0 » About Being a Contrarian Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:35:30 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81564 [...] I don’t hate Web 2.0 stuff, I hate venture capitalists throwing millions of dollars at things that are never going to pay out, and I hate the ridiculous level of attention it’s getting.  Do we need a dozen companies providing wiki’s to other people who are making blogs?  How many widgets are being made to help regular people surf the Web or do whatever they need to do.  Does anyone care how many comments someone named Boyarul has made on other blogs? I hate when tools for bloggers (which is what 90% of these things are right now) are considered the revolution of the Internet.  I also get consistently revolted by those who mistake bloggers for journalists. [...] [...] I don’t hate Web 2.0 stuff, I hate venture capitalists throwing millions of dollars at things that are never going to pay out, and I hate the ridiculous level of attention it’s getting.  Do we need a dozen companies providing wiki’s to other people who are making blogs?  How many widgets are being made to help regular people surf the Web or do whatever they need to do.  Does anyone care how many comments someone named Boyarul has made on other blogs? I hate when tools for bloggers (which is what 90% of these things are right now) are considered the revolution of the Internet.  I also get consistently revolted by those who mistake bloggers for journalists. [...]

]]> By: Andrew Tyndall http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81542 Andrew Tyndall Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:51:06 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81542 Can't we lighten up a little here? This sounds more like broccoli than reporting. What about writing skills? Professionals should be much better than amateurs at making news interesting, snappy, fun to read or watch or listen to, dynamic, moving and so on. Let's not imagine that composing a story is a universal innate skill. It requires practice and experience and expertise as well as native abilities. Good storytellers deserve to be paid as professionals. Can’t we lighten up a little here? This sounds more like broccoli than reporting. What about writing skills? Professionals should be much better than amateurs at making news interesting, snappy, fun to read or watch or listen to, dynamic, moving and so on. Let’s not imagine that composing a story is a universal innate skill. It requires practice and experience and expertise as well as native abilities. Good storytellers deserve to be paid as professionals.

]]> By: CrudeBoy http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/06/29/role-playing/#comment-81535 CrudeBoy Thu, 29 Jun 2006 18:40:10 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=1707#comment-81535 Jeff, Back in my trade journalism days, I had a Managing Editor that decided I wasn't a journalist since I did not have a journalism degree. (I had worked for a wire service for three years at that point.) So she demanded I take a course. I took an advanced journalism workshop at NYU, and ended up helping teach the class, since the teacher, an editor herself, was impressed that I worked for a wire service. The whole thing was a waste of time. Jeff, Back in my trade journalism days, I had a Managing Editor that decided I wasn’t a journalist since I did not have a journalism degree. (I had worked for a wire service for three years at that point.) So she demanded I take a course. I took an advanced journalism workshop at NYU, and ended up helping teach the class, since the teacher, an editor herself, was impressed that I worked for a wire service.

The whole thing was a waste of time.

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