“A recent poll suggested that a third of British Muslims would rather live under Sharia law, while a similar number said they also hope Britain will one day become an Islamic state.”

One third is by far too high and likely dangerous, but it does damage to the argument that Eileen has made in the past that moderate Muslims are radicalized as well.

Another cut and paste:

“Haras Rafiq, of the Sufi Muslim Council, said: ‘The first thing that we need to do as a community is admit there is a problem…’It is like being an alcoholic - we need to stand up and say these things and have an open and honest debate.’…Kharshid Ahmed, chairman of the British Muslim Forum, said: ‘We believe that the threat is still external - it is people coming from outside and leading the radicalisation…’We need to deal with that before people inside our communities are leading the radicalisation.’

Two prominent Muslim leaders admitting there’s a problem internally, egged on by outsiders, and it must be dealt with to stop radicalization.

And the first comment from a young Muslim:

“It’s funny - apparently these Muslim leaders who went to this meeting have forgotten one thing (and the MCB managed to remember!) that as Muslims living in a non Muslim country, we HAVE to abide by the laws of the land.

As a Muslim myself, I do not see why we should have to incorporate Sharia law when the laws of England and of Great Britain as a whole are wholly sufficient and if they were all followed properly, we would be living a peaceful life.

They want us to integrate but it seems the Muslim leaders are messing things up so much that we are now getting further and further away from integration.

Any Tom, Dick and Harry nowadays can call himself a ‘Muslim’ leader. Let’s face it guys, how many of you have been voted into that position? I don’t like the idea that someone who feels the way these leaders do is being given my voice! I want my voice back and it seems that extremists are taking away my right to live a happy life!

Why should British people suffer needlessly?”

- Yoyo, Burnley, Lancashire

Apparently not all Muslims think alike and follow these ‘moderates’.

And I still say the more pressing concern is not Islam as a religion, but thr radicalization process, money trails, weapons deals, and our own dependence on oil.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=400605&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Stay strong, Infidels.

Perhaps I am not as forgiving as Ravo.

You said this: “I simply disagree with you that Islam, as a religion, is the problem.”

That is your problem.

That IS the problem.

Face it.

My italics in my former post ran to the end because the quote from others ran to the end of the post.

To end italics, sandwich the following between the less than and greater than symbols.

/i

Sorry if I was wrong about you. I get very suspicious anymore when someone accuses Jews and infidels who are protesting against the worldwide random hateful acts perpetrated against them as being the ones filled with hate.

Tiresome too, are the comparisons to Judism and Christianity.

“Neither of the latter have anything like the doctrine of jihad among their teachings.

Neither have in their Scriptures any open-ended and universal command to all believers to make war against and subjugate all unbelievers”

You said:

“You are a typical liberal. Turn the accusation of hate, not on the killers, but on the ones objecting to actions of killers…That is Despicable!”

How do you feel about Hitler and his group? Do you have a fondness for that cult ? After all, I’m sure they had their nice moments with friends and neighbors too.

You see, I’m less concerned with attacking Islam as a religion as I am in trying to figure out how to destroy the radicalism. The money ties of the Wahhabists. Their ties to goverments and militias. It’s huge. It’s widespread. And we ignored it for decades.

(below are three excerpts from three different commentators at other sites)

Gee, could it just be something to do with islam and not socio-economic background????

WHEN will the Muslims of Britain stand up to be counted?

When will they declare, loud and clear, with no qualifications or quibbles about Britain’s foreign policy, that Islamic terrorism is WRONG?

Most of all, when will the Muslim community in this country accept an absolute, undeniable, total truth: that Islamic terrorism is THEIR problem? THEY own it. And it is THEIR duty to face it and eradicate it.

To stop the denial, endless fudging and constant wailing that somehow it is everyone else’s problem and, if Islamic terrorism exists at all, they are somehow the main victims.

Because until that happens the problem will never be resolved. And there will be more 7/7s and, sometime in the future, another airplane plot will succeed with horrific loss of innocent life.

Equally important, those British politicians who have seemed obsessed with pandering to, and even encouraging, this state of denial, must throw off their politically-correct blinkers and recognise the same truth—that Muslim terrorism in Britain is the direct responsibility of British Muslims.

If only they would follow the lead of Home Secretary John Reid, whose tough, pragmatic, clear-sighted approach has been a breath of fresh air. Only then can they properly work out how to tackle it.

For instance, every airport in Britain is in chaos over the plane bomb-plot alert as every passenger is subjected to rigorous security checks. Why? They take lots of time, lots of staff, and are extremely expensive.

I’m a white 62-year-old 6ft 4ins suit-wearing ex-cop—I fly often, but do I really fit the profile of suicide bomber? Does the young mum with three tots? The gay couple, the rugby team, the middle-aged businessman?

No. But they are all getting exactly the same amount and devouring huge resources for no logical reason whatsoever. Yet the truth is Islamic terrorism in the West has been universally carried out by young Muslim men, usually of ethnic appearance, almost always travelling alone or in very small groups. A tiny percentage, I bet, of those delayed today have such characteristics.

This targeting of airport resources is called passenger profiling—the Israelis invented it and they’ve got probably the safest airports and airlines in the world.

In all my years at the front line of fighting terrorism, one truth was always clear — communities beat terrorists, not governments or security forces. But communities can’t beat terrorism unless they have the will to do so. My heart sank this week as I saw and read the knee-jerk reaction of friends and neighbours of those arrested in this latest incident, insisting it was all a mistake and the anti-terrorist squad had the wrong people.

I have no idea whether those arrested are guilty or not. But neither have those friends and neighbours. They spoke as if it was inconceivable such a thing could happen in their community; that those arrested were all good Muslims; that Islam is a religion of peace so no Muslim could dream of planning such an act.

But we heard the same from the family and friends of the 7/7 bombers, didn’t we?

And the two young British Muslims who died as suicide bombers in Israel. Then there are the British Muslims known to have become suicide bombers in Iraq.

There is currently a huge, long-running and complex alleged Islamist bomb plot being tried at the Old Bailey. And a fistful of other cases of alleged Muslim terrorism plots such as the 21/7 London Underground case are also awaiting trial.

All this would suggest the blindingly obvious—that terrorism is a major problem for the Muslim community of Britain. Of course, there will be instant squealings that this is racism. It’s not. It’s exactly the same as recognising that, during the Northern Ireland troubles that left thousands dead, the IRA were totally based in the Catholic community and the UVF in the Protestant.

And that, most importantly, IRA terrorism only began to draw to a close when that Catholic community it was based in decided as a whole that it was no longer prepared to back violence as the only way forward. Interestingly, it was Catholic revulsion over republican terrorist atrocities such as Enniskillen and Omagh that fuelled that change.

Well, Muslim terrorism in Britain is based in, has its roots in, and grows in, our Muslim community. The madmen of 7/7 and other suicide bombings didn’t hide among the Hindu communities, worship in the Sikh temples, recruit at Catholic churches, did they? It may be true that events in Iraq have angered sections of the Muslim community. I have no doubts, whatever Tony Blair says, that it was a catalyst. I also think it’s entirely fair for Muslims, if they wish, to vocally oppose Britain’s continuing involvement there.

I can recognise, too, that recent events in Lebanon inflame some people, and they want their voices of protest heard. The absolutely unacceptable problem is that this opposition is used by too many to turn a blind eye to, or excuse, terrorists in their midst.

Blasting a passenger airliner out of the sky, killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children, is NEVER acceptable. Under any circumstances. There is NEVER an excuse.

A terrible tragedy costing Muslim lives in Lebanon or Iraq or Afghanistan is never ever an excuse for terrorism here.

It is totally unacceptable, totally wrong. What one party perceives as a wrong, no matter how strongly they feel, does not, in turn, justify another wrong being done to avenge it.

And until every single member of the Muslim community believes that and preaches that—from an ordinary parent to imam or madrassa teacher—terrorism can’t be beaten.

Politicians must accept this truth, and do something about it. One example would be to tackle this chaos at our airports and the passenger profiling I described earlier. Another must is to reconsider ID cards. The importance of knowing whether someone really is who they say they are has never been higher.

This must be combined with improved border controls, logging exactly who goes OUT of the country as well as who comes in should also be reconsidered, whatever the politically correct among us may say. The time terrorism suspects are kept in custody before charge has also caused dissent. Currently the maximum is 28 days—it may well be this should be reconsidered and, if necessary, raised again to, say, 42 days.

Plainly, Muslim terrorism isn’t going away. We need to consider everything in our battle to defeat it. But that’s the responsibility of all.

Not least the community where, sadly for them, it is festering.
 

Jonathan: I don’t say they hate us, Islam says they hate us. Jews and infidels are objects of their hate.

They’ve acted on that hate in the most horrendous of ways.

You are a typical liberal. Turn the accusation of hate, not on the killers, but on the ones objecting to actions of killers.

That is Despicable!

There are those that want to rid the earth of us merely because we are infidels and thus deserve to die, - and they act on it.

But liberals pontificate that we who object to their program to do so, are the hateful ones!

Those who live peaceably and don’t wish to do me violence, or come to our countries for the purpose of replacing our laws, our government with theirs … I have no quarrel with.

Truly….liberals turn the world upside down.

As in…the good are bad, and the good are especially bad when they are intolerant of evil.

How do you feel about Hitler and his group? Do you have a fondness for that cult ? After all, I’m sure they had their nice moments with friends and neighbors too.

Supremacy, world dominion; cleansing the earth of infidels… you find you like that?

Tolerance of evil IS evil.

DOES a sane person feel warm and fuzzy about a cult that teaches it’s members that their highest obligation is to conquer unbelievers, and their highest calling is to kill Jews and infidels randomly in order to achieve the highest reward; a sexual orgy in the hereafter?

As far as Muslim individuals, those that haven’t a clue about their obligations to commit or support jihad, and have no interest in committing violence….what’s to hate about them? …and I don’t hate them.

But if called upon by the mullahs for jihad, which is an obligation if asked, will they instead accept our fate of being treated as an infidel, perhaps killed as an apostate, or will they heed the call of their religion?

You need an editor, a psychotherapist, and a hospice to help you with your own death throes.

Spare us any more of your diatribes, please.

In an inflammatory opinion column, he called on Muslims to “stop the denial, endless fudging and constant wailing that somehow it is everyone else’s problem and, if Islamic terrorism exists at all, they are somehow the main victims”.

Lord Stevens, whose continuing responsibilities in Britain include the inquiry into Princess Diana’s death, also defended “racial profiling” at airports and other security hotspots, saying resources were being wasted on searching everybody out of a sense of fairness or delicacy.

“I’m a white, 62-year-old, suit-wearing ex-cop - I fly often, but do I really fit the profile of a suicide bomber?” Lord Stevens, who was commissioner of the Metropolitan Police until last year, wrote in the News of the World.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/face-up-to-your-problem-muslims-told/2006/08/13/1155407675136.html

“Blasting a passenger airliner out of the sky, killing hundreds of innocent men, women and children, is NEVER acceptable. Under any circumstances. There is NEVER an excuse.

And until every single member of the Muslim community believes that and preaches that—from an ordinary parent to imam or madrassa teacher—terrorism can’t be beaten. “

Muslims LIVE to commit backlash. Yet that someone might backlash against THEM is always the first thing they whine and scream about, - usually about 10 minutes after one of them subjects the rest of the world to yet another horror.

“WE” weren’t, but Islam has been ….with everyone.

Nearly none of the rest of the world’s civilians, no matter their religion, no matter how anguished or angry at injustices we perceive to have received from others, are individually targeting innocent people we don’t even know to eliminate from the Earth to please our God.

At least 25% of Muslims approved of 7/7 as an appropriate backlash for their perceived grievances! Islam permits killing of infidels totally unrelated to those grievances, ….ok to kill simply because they are infidels!

Talk about bigotry!

“attributing it homogeneous and - in this case - negative characteristics”

No, - documenting them as they EXIST.

So let’s cut the despicable attempt at moral equivalency.

Re: innocence - When Islam references the word innocence, the word means something much different then what you (or the rest of the world) are thinking when you use it.

From what I’ve read, innocence is not an “attribute” that can ever be conferred upon an unbeliever.

It’s likely the important parts have been left out of that quote about forgiveness as well, as Jews are considered to be apes and monkey, and Muslims are taught to hate them from the day they are born.

Talk about bigotry!!!

As these posts continue, I’m seeing more and more actual continuity. Yes, it’s those Wahhabiist (OK, I have no idea how to spell that word) teachings that are causing this. And, yes, I’d bet that it’s larger that a ’small minority’. But if it was as prominent as some here have suggested, we would have been constatnly at war for centuries.

Look, it’s obvious that, as a whole, Islam is in a f*cked up state right now. The Middle East, South Asia, Europe. Lots of hate being preached. Daily.