Comments on: ONA: The definition of civil war in Iraq http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/ by Jeff Jarvis Tue, 02 Dec 2008 00:37:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » Worse than a civil war http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-220901 BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » Worse than a civil war Sat, 02 Dec 2006 16:10:39 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-220901 [...] I think it’s worse than that. “Civil war” infers some order: two sides, usually, fighting each other with a clear goal of taking over the nation. But in Iraq, there are countless sides and motivations — religious, political, economic, historical, familial — all shooting at each other, many without a clear goal except disruption at best, murder at worst. At the Online News Association, Zeyad described neighborhoods at war with neighborhoods. Read the message-board notices he translates: urgent dispatches from war front in neighborhoods in Baghdad. At ONA, Zeyad called it civil war but alaso pointed out that the government is not in charge of anything, even the Green Zone. There is no order to the disorder. [...] [...] I think it’s worse than that. “Civil war” infers some order: two sides, usually, fighting each other with a clear goal of taking over the nation. But in Iraq, there are countless sides and motivations — religious, political, economic, historical, familial — all shooting at each other, many without a clear goal except disruption at best, murder at worst. At the Online News Association, Zeyad described neighborhoods at war with neighborhoods. Read the message-board notices he translates: urgent dispatches from war front in neighborhoods in Baghdad. At ONA, Zeyad called it civil war but alaso pointed out that the government is not in charge of anything, even the Green Zone. There is no order to the disorder. [...]

]]> By: Karl http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-160800 Karl Fri, 13 Oct 2006 21:33:07 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-160800 Ollie can't find Iraq the Model without someone holding his hand? Those are some Internet skills on that one. I don't read Ollie's blog... is he still down with the <a href="http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/003532.php" rel="nofollow">racist</a> <a href="http://lileks.com/bleats/archive/05/0305/031705.html" rel="nofollow">hatemongering?</a> Just curious. Ollie can’t find Iraq the Model without someone holding his hand? Those are some Internet skills on that one.

I don’t read Ollie’s blog… is he still down with the racist hatemongering? Just curious.

]]> By: Kevin K. http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-159860 Kevin K. Thu, 12 Oct 2006 13:55:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-159860 Maybe <a href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/archives/2005_07_13.html#010039" rel="nofollow">Mark Yost</a> could weigh in on this. I wish Zeyad could "see beyond [his] own navel and see the real good we're doing to promote peace and prosperity in the world." Heh. Indeed. And, Penny, thanks for the laugh. Who knew agenda-less gals like you could be so knee-slappingly funny. Maybe Mark Yost could weigh in on this.

I wish Zeyad could “see beyond [his] own navel and see the real good we’re doing to promote peace and prosperity in the world.”

Heh. Indeed.

And, Penny, thanks for the laugh. Who knew agenda-less gals like you could be so knee-slappingly funny.

]]> By: Oliver http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-158842 Oliver Wed, 11 Oct 2006 02:46:31 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-158842 No, I honestly didn't know. It's not schadenfreude, Jeff. It's not as if I had magical powers to see into the future to know this was all a bad idea from the get-go. No, I honestly didn’t know. It’s not schadenfreude, Jeff. It’s not as if I had magical powers to see into the future to know this was all a bad idea from the get-go.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-158711 Jeff Jarvis Tue, 10 Oct 2006 22:54:54 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-158711 Ollie, They are blogging from Baghdad, as you well know, and living through war. Try to restrain your Schadenfreude, eh? Ollie,
They are blogging from Baghdad, as you well know, and living through war. Try to restrain your Schadenfreude, eh?

]]> By: Oliver http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-158643 Oliver Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:54:14 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-158643 Hey Jeff, whatever happened to your "Iraq is going awesome" Iraq bloggers who got a personal audience with the president? Hey Jeff, whatever happened to your “Iraq is going awesome” Iraq bloggers who got a personal audience with the president?

]]> By: penny http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-158456 penny Tue, 10 Oct 2006 15:30:15 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-158456 I remember reading Zeyad's blog at its beginnings for awhile and soon tired of it because of its whiney quality. I felt he had an agenda and was less than honest. I remember reading Zeyad’s blog at its beginnings for awhile and soon tired of it because of its whiney quality. I felt he had an agenda and was less than honest.

]]> By: D. Mathews http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-158039 D. Mathews Tue, 10 Oct 2006 02:49:06 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-158039 More ominous signs on the horizon: <blockquote>Iraqi journalists can no longer criticize their own government. (...) Prime Minister Nouri Maliki’s government has written and passed laws – many of them paraphrasing Saddam Hussein’s old penal code to the point of plagiarism – that make it illegal to criticize the government.</blockquote> [http://www.dailyevergreen.com/disp_story.php?storyId=19283] More ominous signs on the horizon:

Iraqi journalists can no longer criticize their own government. (…) Prime Minister Nouri Maliki’s government has written and passed laws – many of them paraphrasing Saddam Hussein’s old penal code to the point of plagiarism – that make it illegal to criticize the government.

[http://www.dailyevergreen.com/disp_story.php?storyId=19283]

]]> By: La Shawn Barber’s Corner » New Media Power http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157534 La Shawn Barber’s Corner » New Media Power Mon, 09 Oct 2006 11:18:07 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157534 [...] Journalist and blogger Jeff Jarvis (and here) said this year’s ONA conference was an improvement over last year’s, where he heard “a lot of resistance to change and blogs.” Jeff frequently blogs about the convergence of new and old media and old media’s resistance to it. [...] [...] Journalist and blogger Jeff Jarvis (and here) said this year’s ONA conference was an improvement over last year’s, where he heard “a lot of resistance to change and blogs.” Jeff frequently blogs about the convergence of new and old media and old media’s resistance to it. [...]

]]> By: Ruth http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157512 Ruth Mon, 09 Oct 2006 10:40:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157512 Thank you, Jeff, for a very valuable piece. It's sad, but our soldiers and Iraqis share the burden of dying without any positive achievement by their deaths. It's time for reality to intrude into our leaders' views on the war as well. Sadly, the need for slogans has dominated the need for logical action - and we are being told that we should display obstinacy instead of rationality. From Jeffrey Record at the U.S. Air War College, the U.S. went to war expecting a short, cheap victory, but "The result was a tardy, excessively violent and politically vacuous response to the resulting insurgency."... the conventional invasion force was too small to secure the country." In the editorial in today's Dallas Morning News, "A more realistic policy would be to abstain from small wars of choice and place the protection of concrete interests ahead of moral crusades to export American political values to lands that are alien to them." Zeyad is a victim as are his countrymen of a political element that flies in the face of reality to experiment with the lives of others. The experiment has failed. Thank you, Jeff, for a very valuable piece. It’s sad, but our soldiers and Iraqis share the burden of dying without any positive achievement by their deaths.

It’s time for reality to intrude into our leaders’ views on the war as well. Sadly, the need for slogans has dominated the need for logical action - and we are being told that we should display obstinacy instead of rationality. From Jeffrey Record at the U.S. Air War College, the U.S. went to war expecting a short, cheap victory, but “The result was a tardy, excessively violent and politically vacuous response to the resulting insurgency.”… the conventional invasion force was too small to secure the country.” In the editorial in today’s Dallas Morning News, “A more realistic policy would be to abstain from small wars of choice and place the protection of concrete interests ahead of moral crusades to export American political values to lands that are alien to them.”

Zeyad is a victim as are his countrymen of a political element that flies in the face of reality to experiment with the lives of others. The experiment has failed.

]]> By: Greenslade http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157480 Greenslade Mon, 09 Oct 2006 09:01:31 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157480 <strong>Baghdad blogger: yes, it is a civil war</strong> Zeyad, author of the Healing Iraq blog that has chronicled life in Baghdad for the last three years, spoke of his experiences at the Online News Association's conference in Washington at the weekend. "I thought it was riveting and so... Baghdad blogger: yes, it is a civil war

Zeyad, author of the Healing Iraq blog that has chronicled life in Baghdad for the last three years, spoke of his experiences at the Online News Association’s conference in Washington at the weekend. “I thought it was riveting and so…

]]> By: War - Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea at Bene Diction Blogs On http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157448 War - Afghanistan, Iraq, North Korea at Bene Diction Blogs On Mon, 09 Oct 2006 05:53:53 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157448 [...] Iraq blogger speaks plainly to Online News Association Zeyad told the story of the beginning of his blog and then about milestones in its life and the transformation of his thinking about the war — from the start of the war, when Zeyad was optimistic for Iraq; to the lack of media coverage of prodemocracy demonstrations in Baghdad in 2003; to the death of his cousin at the hands of American soldiers; to his current view of the war. When Zeyad pushed for and got an investigation into his cousin’s death (which found the Americans at fault), he said he saw a backlash among his readers. “They accused me of all kinds of things, particularly because I [had been] optimistic. I realized some people were supporting me just because I was saying things they wanted to hear.” Published 0 minutes ago // Used for showing and hiding user information in the comment form function ShowUtils() { document.getElementById("authorinfo").style.display = ""; document.getElementById("showinfo").style.display = "none"; document.getElementById("hideinfo").style.display = ""; } function HideUtils() { document.getElementById("authorinfo").style.display = "none"; document.getElementById("showinfo").style.display = ""; document.getElementById("hideinfo").style.display = "none"; } [...] [...] Iraq blogger speaks plainly to Online News Association Zeyad told the story of the beginning of his blog and then about milestones in its life and the transformation of his thinking about the war — from the start of the war, when Zeyad was optimistic for Iraq; to the lack of media coverage of prodemocracy demonstrations in Baghdad in 2003; to the death of his cousin at the hands of American soldiers; to his current view of the war. When Zeyad pushed for and got an investigation into his cousin’s death (which found the Americans at fault), he said he saw a backlash among his readers. “They accused me of all kinds of things, particularly because I [had been] optimistic. I realized some people were supporting me just because I was saying things they wanted to hear.” Published 0 minutes ago // Used for showing and hiding user information in the comment form function ShowUtils() { document.getElementById(”authorinfo”).style.display = “”; document.getElementById(”showinfo”).style.display = “none”; document.getElementById(”hideinfo”).style.display = “”; } function HideUtils() { document.getElementById(”authorinfo”).style.display = “none”; document.getElementById(”showinfo”).style.display = “”; document.getElementById(”hideinfo”).style.display = “none”; } [...]

]]> By: Zeyad » The Road to Surfdom http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157404 Zeyad » The Road to Surfdom Mon, 09 Oct 2006 03:51:43 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157404 [...] Jeff Jarvis at BuzzMachine went to a public interview the other night with Iraqi blogger, Zeyad. Jarvis’ report on the event is a must-read, and could someone please send it to our prime minister. [...] [...] Jeff Jarvis at BuzzMachine went to a public interview the other night with Iraqi blogger, Zeyad. Jarvis’ report on the event is a must-read, and could someone please send it to our prime minister. [...]

]]> By: ThinkersDen.com » Blog Archive » Daily News: Quick Blog Roundup http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157381 ThinkersDen.com » Blog Archive » Daily News: Quick Blog Roundup Mon, 09 Oct 2006 02:46:08 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157381 [...] I discovered Healing Iraq a blog by Zeyad care of a writeup by Jeff Jarvis. If you click on the Jarvis link first you can get a quick history of the Healing Iraq site including the development of Zeyad’s thinking about the war. I haven’t spent much time reading blogs by Iraqi’s (which I feel bad about because I have a good deal of visitors from the Middle East here, thanks for coming!) and the fact that blogging is going on in a War zone is oddly fascinating. [...] [...] I discovered Healing Iraq a blog by Zeyad care of a writeup by Jeff Jarvis. If you click on the Jarvis link first you can get a quick history of the Healing Iraq site including the development of Zeyad’s thinking about the war. I haven’t spent much time reading blogs by Iraqi’s (which I feel bad about because I have a good deal of visitors from the Middle East here, thanks for coming!) and the fact that blogging is going on in a War zone is oddly fascinating. [...]

]]> By: robhyndman.com » Blog Archive » Cut and Run - Canada in Afghanistan http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/08/ona-the-definition-of-civil-war-in-iraq/#comment-157324 robhyndman.com » Blog Archive » Cut and Run - Canada in Afghanistan Mon, 09 Oct 2006 00:54:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2094#comment-157324 [...] Update: Jeff Jarvis covers a presentation at ONA about news coverage of the War in Iraq that is right on point. Related Posts [...] [...] Update: Jeff Jarvis covers a presentation at ONA about news coverage of the War in Iraq that is right on point. Related Posts [...]

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