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	<title>Comments on: Trimming newspaper fat v. meat</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 23:55:09 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Web 2.0 Television &#187; (Reposted) Evolving Newspapers Part I: Jarvis Suggests Outsourcing, Calls For Fat-Trimming; Gillmor Riffs on MSM</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-191935</link>
		<dc:creator>Web 2.0 Television &#187; (Reposted) Evolving Newspapers Part I: Jarvis Suggests Outsourcing, Calls For Fat-Trimming; Gillmor Riffs on MSM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Nov 2006 17:04:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-191935</guid>
		<description>[...] Jarvis&#39; post echoes an earlier one he did, also today, in which he discusses what needs to go from newspapers &#8212; &#34;Trimming newspaper fat vs. meat&#34;. Jarvis continues the debate by posting parts of Washington Post columnist Howard Kurtz&#39;s response to the responses Jarvis, Slate&#39;s media columnist Jack Shafer and other bloggers wrote. Main points I&#39;ll paraphrase from Jarvis: let the editors find the innovative ways to cover news, they ought to know how; put the resources into the reporting you need, not what you don&#39;t; bloggers can help local coverage, though we all know they won&#39;t replace reporters. Opines Jarvis:&#160; The fantasizing we see in in newsrooms that believe newspapers can and should continue with business-as-usual, that newsrooms need to be as big as they are to get their real job done, and that they are doing a good job now. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jarvis&#39; post echoes an earlier one he did, also today, in which he discusses what needs to go from newspapers &mdash; &quot;Trimming newspaper fat vs. meat&quot;. Jarvis continues the debate by posting parts of Washington Post columnist Howard Kurtz&#39;s response to the responses Jarvis, Slate&#39;s media columnist Jack Shafer and other bloggers wrote. Main points I&#39;ll paraphrase from Jarvis: let the editors find the innovative ways to cover news, they ought to know how; put the resources into the reporting you need, not what you don&#39;t; bloggers can help local coverage, though we all know they won&#39;t replace reporters. Opines Jarvis:&nbsp; The fantasizing we see in in newsrooms that believe newspapers can and should continue with business-as-usual, that newsrooms need to be as big as they are to get their real job done, and that they are doing a good job now. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Fester</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-182644</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:22:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-182644</guid>
		<description>Grumpy:

I hope we can continue civilly after this- here goes, regardless.

There are boatloads of bloggers reporting and commenting for free. Some subset will take happily take money for reporting on the Dumpwater City Council meeting.  

Don't overstate the need for training.  Their job is to bring back information. Your job is to display it.  Lots of people have jobs involving the collection of information, and Strunk and White don't figure in to what they do. You should care only about accuracy and completeness.

J-school types don't want to do rewrite?  Too bad.  Here's a solution- make rewrite the highest paying job in the reporting cycle. 

Liability may be a strawman- someone will set up an AP-like feeder company for this, I think.  

I guess the bottom line is that all your concerns don't matter- the world is moving on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Grumpy:</p>
<p>I hope we can continue civilly after this- here goes, regardless.</p>
<p>There are boatloads of bloggers reporting and commenting for free. Some subset will take happily take money for reporting on the Dumpwater City Council meeting.  </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t overstate the need for training.  Their job is to bring back information. Your job is to display it.  Lots of people have jobs involving the collection of information, and Strunk and White don&#8217;t figure in to what they do. You should care only about accuracy and completeness.</p>
<p>J-school types don&#8217;t want to do rewrite?  Too bad.  Here&#8217;s a solution- make rewrite the highest paying job in the reporting cycle. </p>
<p>Liability may be a strawman- someone will set up an AP-like feeder company for this, I think.  </p>
<p>I guess the bottom line is that all your concerns don&#8217;t matter- the world is moving on.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-182587</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 19:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-182587</guid>
		<description>I work at a newspaper in Flyover Land where the cuts have gone from trimming fat and meat to hacking at the bone. The quality of the work we produce is rapidly falling off due to reporters' lack of time to do anything of substance, our inability to attract and retain good candidates once they see what's going on, and the poor morale that comes from working under such conditions. Ownership is doing this to squeeze more profits out, not comprehending they're strangling the cash cow in the process. 

And Uncle Fester, there are huge problems with using the system you suggest -- I know, because I'm an editor who has to use that type of a network to cover our extended publication area. Finding folks without an agenda who want to do the job is hard enough -- finding ones with some degree of training and ability is even harder. Most "volunteer journalists" we see want to start off as columnists or cover something "fun" -- not city council meetings, and not at the pay rates offered. Print journalism -- at least off the coasts -- is a pretty low-paying field, and part-time journalism pays even worse. 

Using that type of coverage model would require experienced people in a newsroom to do rewriting, and most experienced j-folks don't want to play that game. Fact checking, while necessary, delays getting the copy into print (these "volunteers" already have trouble meeting deadlines because they have other jobs and responsibilities) and leads to complaints from readers that we're not covering their communities in a timely fashion.

It also exposes newspapers to huge liability concerns, depending on how the states' they are in view the business arrangement between paper and "volunteer journalist." My state views them as independent contractors, which shields us a bit, but I'm living in mortal terror of being sued when something wrong slips by us. I don't have the same dread involving my full-time reporters, because they know if they screw up that badly it's the end of their careers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work at a newspaper in Flyover Land where the cuts have gone from trimming fat and meat to hacking at the bone. The quality of the work we produce is rapidly falling off due to reporters&#8217; lack of time to do anything of substance, our inability to attract and retain good candidates once they see what&#8217;s going on, and the poor morale that comes from working under such conditions. Ownership is doing this to squeeze more profits out, not comprehending they&#8217;re strangling the cash cow in the process. </p>
<p>And Uncle Fester, there are huge problems with using the system you suggest &#8212; I know, because I&#8217;m an editor who has to use that type of a network to cover our extended publication area. Finding folks without an agenda who want to do the job is hard enough &#8212; finding ones with some degree of training and ability is even harder. Most &#8220;volunteer journalists&#8221; we see want to start off as columnists or cover something &#8220;fun&#8221; &#8212; not city council meetings, and not at the pay rates offered. Print journalism &#8212; at least off the coasts &#8212; is a pretty low-paying field, and part-time journalism pays even worse. </p>
<p>Using that type of coverage model would require experienced people in a newsroom to do rewriting, and most experienced j-folks don&#8217;t want to play that game. Fact checking, while necessary, delays getting the copy into print (these &#8220;volunteers&#8221; already have trouble meeting deadlines because they have other jobs and responsibilities) and leads to complaints from readers that we&#8217;re not covering their communities in a timely fashion.</p>
<p>It also exposes newspapers to huge liability concerns, depending on how the states&#8217; they are in view the business arrangement between paper and &#8220;volunteer journalist.&#8221; My state views them as independent contractors, which shields us a bit, but I&#8217;m living in mortal terror of being sued when something wrong slips by us. I don&#8217;t have the same dread involving my full-time reporters, because they know if they screw up that badly it&#8217;s the end of their careers.</p>
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		<title>By: peter</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-181991</link>
		<dc:creator>peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Nov 2006 03:55:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-181991</guid>
		<description>Yeah, reporters are so busy due to stiff staff cuts that they're no longer able to host  weekly programs on CNN (or cheerily be a talking head guest). Oh, wait...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, reporters are so busy due to stiff staff cuts that they&#8217;re no longer able to host  weekly programs on CNN (or cheerily be a talking head guest). Oh, wait&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Uncle Fester</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-181790</link>
		<dc:creator>Uncle Fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Nov 2006 21:58:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-181790</guid>
		<description>Somebody's probably thought of this, but:

I think a fine business model for newspapers would be to have a reporting staff of comprised heavily of stringers/volunteers/experts who work on a per-article basis. 

The paper's full-time editorial employees would be fact checkers and re-write people.  

I am sure the argument will be that these folks are all biased, etc, but how bad can it be relative to the existing crop?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Somebody&#8217;s probably thought of this, but:</p>
<p>I think a fine business model for newspapers would be to have a reporting staff of comprised heavily of stringers/volunteers/experts who work on a per-article basis. </p>
<p>The paper&#8217;s full-time editorial employees would be fact checkers and re-write people.  </p>
<p>I am sure the argument will be that these folks are all biased, etc, but how bad can it be relative to the existing crop?</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Giner</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-180768</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Giner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-180768</guid>
		<description>Howard,

You are right.

Only investing in your core business, and there is no more core business than the newsrooms, you will survive.

Investing in the newsrooms means:

First, get in the bus the right people.

Second, get out the bus the wrong people.

Third, seat in the right seats the right people.

And then letÂ´s discuss where are we going and if we need more people.

Instead, newspapers are just cutting, cutting, cutting for the sake of the numbers, and no proper review of the quality of our talent is done, starting from the top.

If you want to save money in a newsroom just fire some of the editors: with one bad editor out you can hire five young talented reporters and still make savings...

HR is crucial, but in our newspapers it is just the legal department for hiring and firing.

No progresive and creative HR policies.

Talent, talent, talent is what we need.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard,</p>
<p>You are right.</p>
<p>Only investing in your core business, and there is no more core business than the newsrooms, you will survive.</p>
<p>Investing in the newsrooms means:</p>
<p>First, get in the bus the right people.</p>
<p>Second, get out the bus the wrong people.</p>
<p>Third, seat in the right seats the right people.</p>
<p>And then letÂ´s discuss where are we going and if we need more people.</p>
<p>Instead, newspapers are just cutting, cutting, cutting for the sake of the numbers, and no proper review of the quality of our talent is done, starting from the top.</p>
<p>If you want to save money in a newsroom just fire some of the editors: with one bad editor out you can hire five young talented reporters and still make savings&#8230;</p>
<p>HR is crucial, but in our newspapers it is just the legal department for hiring and firing.</p>
<p>No progresive and creative HR policies.</p>
<p>Talent, talent, talent is what we need.</p>
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		<title>By: Howard Owens</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-180742</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Owens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-180742</guid>
		<description>It should be noted that it seems that the newspapers doing the most cutting are the least innovative.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted that it seems that the newspapers doing the most cutting are the least innovative.</p>
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		<title>By: Juan Giner</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/10/31/trimming-newspaper-fat-v-meat/#comment-180721</link>
		<dc:creator>Juan Giner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=2160#comment-180721</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

"End of discussion" means I am not interest in yor opinions, ideas or comments.

Well, he works for The Washington Post and CNN, not the best examples of interactive media. 

And as a "columnist" and not a blogger, he does not takes comments or questions from readers.

He is is God.

But he is wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>&#8220;End of discussion&#8221; means I am not interest in yor opinions, ideas or comments.</p>
<p>Well, he works for The Washington Post and CNN, not the best examples of interactive media. </p>
<p>And as a &#8220;columnist&#8221; and not a blogger, he does not takes comments or questions from readers.</p>
<p>He is is God.</p>
<p>But he is wrong.</p>
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