Comments on: The Euston Manifesto spreads http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:40:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: stan http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-418097 stan Sat, 10 Jul 2010 16:32:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-418097 Personally, I think 'the Anglo-American liberal tradition' is getting harder and harder to remember. Personally, I think ‘the Anglo-American liberal tradition’ is getting harder and harder to remember.

]]> By: John Coelho http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-361686 John Coelho Sat, 13 Oct 2007 20:26:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-361686 It's time to move away from the oedipally fixated "hate Daddy" left while promoting those aspects of leftism that have worked: access to education, equality of opportunity, an industrial policy, gender equality and so on. The Left, so often identifies with Third Worlders no matter how retrograde their world view to the expense of sensibilities that took 2,000 years to develope in the West and which are the envy of the sentient habitants of the Third world. In the US we need an organization to support the ideas of the Euston Manifesto and I would like to communicate with anyone here in that regard. It’s time to move away from the oedipally fixated “hate Daddy” left while promoting those aspects of leftism that have worked: access to education, equality of opportunity, an industrial policy, gender equality and so on. The Left, so often identifies with Third Worlders no matter how retrograde their world view to the expense of sensibilities that took 2,000 years to develope in the West and which are the envy of the sentient habitants of the Third world.

In the US we need an organization to support the ideas of the Euston Manifesto and I would like to communicate with anyone here in that regard.

]]> By: Sohbet http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-350421 Sohbet Sun, 27 May 2007 09:48:37 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-350421 Norman Geras, the Manchester University professor who wrote some of the Euston Manifesto and is rightly its theoretical guru, in a column in The Guardian put a more prosaic, and realistic, spin on this than either you or Roger Cohen. Norman Geras, the Manchester University professor who wrote some of the Euston Manifesto and is rightly its theoretical guru, in a column in The Guardian put a more prosaic, and realistic, spin on this than either you or Roger Cohen.

]]> By: Reactions to Roger Cohen’s Pro Euston NYT Piece at The Euston Manifesto Blog http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-267855 Reactions to Roger Cohen’s Pro Euston NYT Piece at The Euston Manifesto Blog Fri, 05 Jan 2007 22:52:44 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-267855 [...] Roger Cohen endorsed the Euston Manifesto in the International Herald Tribune/New York Times recently (as linked by the Euston Blog previously). Jeff Jarvis, a friend of the Euston Manifesto, posts Cohen’s piece in it’s entirety on his blog, as the NYT page has leaped over “the damned pay wall.” [...] [...] Roger Cohen endorsed the Euston Manifesto in the International Herald Tribune/New York Times recently (as linked by the Euston Blog previously). Jeff Jarvis, a friend of the Euston Manifesto, posts Cohen’s piece in it’s entirety on his blog, as the NYT page has leaped over “the damned pay wall.” [...]

]]> By: Stephen Downes http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-264784 Stephen Downes Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:21:19 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-264784 This manifesto feels to me more like something some conservatives would write if they were pretending to be leftists for an afternoon. A new left manifesto is probably a good idea; this isn't it. This manifesto feels to me more like something some conservatives would write if they were pretending to be leftists for an afternoon. A new left manifesto is probably a good idea; this isn’t it.

]]> By: some timely attention for the Euston Manifesto at infotainment rules http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-264083 some timely attention for the Euston Manifesto at infotainment rules Tue, 02 Jan 2007 02:56:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-264083 [...] Via Jeff Jarvis I note that, Roger Cohen of the IHT also has moral relativism on the brain (see my post earlier this evening) as he endorses the Euston Manifesto (which I have supported since its inception): There appears to be little hope that Bush will ever abandon his with-us-or-against-us take on the post-9/11 world. Division is the president’s adrenalin; he abhors shades of gray. Nor does it seem likely that the America-hating, over-the-top ranting of the left - the kind that equates Guantánamo with the Gulag and holds that the real threat to human rights comes from the White House rather than Al Qaeda - will abate during the Bush presidency. [...] [...] Via Jeff Jarvis I note that, Roger Cohen of the IHT also has moral relativism on the brain (see my post earlier this evening) as he endorses the Euston Manifesto (which I have supported since its inception): There appears to be little hope that Bush will ever abandon his with-us-or-against-us take on the post-9/11 world. Division is the president’s adrenalin; he abhors shades of gray. Nor does it seem likely that the America-hating, over-the-top ranting of the left – the kind that equates Guantánamo with the Gulag and holds that the real threat to human rights comes from the White House rather than Al Qaeda – will abate during the Bush presidency. [...]

]]> By: Dr. Mathews http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-263876 Dr. Mathews Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:45:30 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-263876 <em>a statement of principles by a new coalition from the left in the U.K</em> from the left? ... Ridiculous! By the way, I'm surprised you haven't placed at least a reference or link to Zayed's compilation of Iraqi bloggers' reactions to Saddam's hanging http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/ a statement of principles by a new coalition from the left in the U.K

from the left? … Ridiculous!

By the way, I’m surprised you haven’t placed at least a reference or link to Zayed’s compilation of Iraqi bloggers’ reactions to Saddam’s hanging

http://healingiraq.blogspot.com/

]]> By: Jimmy http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-263867 Jimmy Mon, 01 Jan 2007 18:35:31 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-263867 OK, I certainly see nothing wrong with this "manifesto," but I think saying that Liberals and Democrats are more angry at Bush than they are with terrorism is not only absurdly wrong, it's an over-simplification of real and worth-noting mistakes of what I believe is the worst president of my generation. Moreover, I've never met a Liberal or Democrat who supported tyranny, but unlike this administration, or the fools at PNAC, I don't believe invading every country ruled by some Tom, Dick, and Harry dictator is the way to deal with the problem; especially, when we are more than willing to support and look the other way when those dictators are willing to do our bidding. And if I see "anti-Semitism masquerading as anti- Zionism" in another sentance I think I will puke. This very "manifesto's" statement of a two-state solution is considered by some to be anti-Semitism. Come on, just because Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist sons of bitches doesn't mean Israel hasn't made mistakes with their handling of the Palestinian question; and pointing that out is not anti-Semitism. It is, instead, counter-productive. Yes, this "manifesto" makes some important points we should openly discuss, but the people on this side of the pond embracing it are engaging in the very name-calling and generalities it is supposedly against. OK, I certainly see nothing wrong with this “manifesto,” but I think saying that Liberals and Democrats are more angry at Bush than they are with terrorism is not only absurdly wrong, it’s an over-simplification of real and worth-noting mistakes of what I believe is the worst president of my generation. Moreover, I’ve never met a Liberal or Democrat who supported tyranny, but unlike this administration, or the fools at PNAC, I don’t believe invading every country ruled by some Tom, Dick, and Harry dictator is the way to deal with the problem; especially, when we are more than willing to support and look the other way when those dictators are willing to do our bidding. And if I see “anti-Semitism masquerading as anti- Zionism” in another sentance I think I will puke. This very “manifesto’s” statement of a two-state solution is considered by some to be anti-Semitism. Come on, just because Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist sons of bitches doesn’t mean Israel hasn’t made mistakes with their handling of the Palestinian question; and pointing that out is not anti-Semitism. It is, instead, counter-productive.

Yes, this “manifesto” makes some important points we should openly discuss, but the people on this side of the pond embracing it are engaging in the very name-calling and generalities it is supposedly against.

]]> By: Hasan Jafri http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-262728 Hasan Jafri Mon, 01 Jan 2007 00:16:35 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-262728 Norman Geras, the Manchester University professor who wrote some of the Euston Manifesto and is rightly its theoretical guru, in a column in The Guardian put a more prosaic, and realistic, spin on this than either you or Roger Cohen. From his description, Euston preaches to the converted (right-wing) by building an anti-left consensus. To wit: "On a Saturday last May, two days after the general election, there was a meeting in a pub in London of 20 or so similarly minded people. We had no very specific agenda, merely a desire to talk about where things were politically. Those present were all people of the left, some of them bloggers or individuals running other websites, their readers, a few with labour movement connections, one or two students. Many of us were supporters of the military intervention in Iraq, and those who weren't - who had indeed opposed it - were nonetheless finding themselves increasingly out of tune with the dominant anti-war discourse. They were at odds, too, with how that discourse was now being related to other prominent issues - terrorism and the fight against it, US foreign policy, the record of the Blair government, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and, more generally, attitudes to democratic values and to movements that reject these. It was our common sense of discord with much current left-liberal thinking on these issues that was the focus of discussion on that Saturday." There are problems with such a broad-brush, scattershot approach. Using "much current liberal left-liberal thinking on these issues" as an apology for the war in Iraq is, as Euston's critics say, a little like saying "I woke up on 9/11 to find the world changed, am no longer a Democrat, and now have very strong views about Chappaquiddick." I like parts of it, and you and Roger Cohen make some great points, but Euston ultimately is a feel-good manifeso of tenuous connections and broad generalizations. Happy New Year. Norman Geras, the Manchester University professor who wrote some of the Euston Manifesto and is rightly its theoretical guru, in a column in The Guardian put a more prosaic, and realistic, spin on this than either you or Roger Cohen. From his description, Euston preaches to the converted (right-wing) by building an anti-left consensus.

To wit:

“On a Saturday last May, two days after the general election, there was a meeting in a pub in London of 20 or so similarly minded people. We had no very specific agenda, merely a desire to talk about where things were politically. Those present were all people of the left, some of them bloggers or individuals running other websites, their readers, a few with labour movement connections, one or two students. Many of us were supporters of the military intervention in Iraq, and those who weren’t – who had indeed opposed it – were nonetheless finding themselves increasingly out of tune with the dominant anti-war discourse. They were at odds, too, with how that discourse was now being related to other prominent issues – terrorism and the fight against it, US foreign policy, the record of the Blair government, the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and, more generally, attitudes to democratic values and to movements that reject these.

It was our common sense of discord with much current left-liberal thinking on these issues that was the focus of discussion on that Saturday.”

There are problems with such a broad-brush, scattershot approach. Using “much current liberal left-liberal thinking on these issues” as an apology for the war in Iraq is, as Euston’s critics say, a little like saying “I woke up on 9/11 to find the world changed, am no longer a Democrat, and now have very strong views about Chappaquiddick.”

I like parts of it, and you and Roger Cohen make some great points, but Euston ultimately is a feel-good manifeso of tenuous connections and broad generalizations.

Happy New Year.

]]> By: James Robertson http://www.buzzmachine.com/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-262653 James Robertson Sun, 31 Dec 2006 21:59:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/index.php/2006/12/31/the-euston-manifesto-spreads/#comment-262653 You might try giving a listen to Dan Carlin (http://dancarlin.com) who does two podcasts - "Common Sense" on current events, and a history podcast. He calls himself a "neo-whig" - and while I don't agree with everything he says, I find him to be thought provoking. You might try giving a listen to Dan Carlin (http://dancarlin.com) who does two podcasts – “Common Sense” on current events, and a history podcast. He calls himself a “neo-whig” – and while I don’t agree with everything he says, I find him to be thought provoking.

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