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	<title>Comments on: The L.A. Times responds</title>
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	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
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		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357846</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Aug 2007 21:42:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357846</guid>
		<description>Based on what you&#039;ve quoted him as saying, Jon Healey sounds like a smart man to me.  For the sake of maintaining existing newspaper brands, I hope he succeeds in persuading those around him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Based on what you&#8217;ve quoted him as saying, Jon Healey sounds like a smart man to me.  For the sake of maintaining existing newspaper brands, I hope he succeeds in persuading those around him.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Gauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357699</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 14:05:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357699</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

You&#039;re right. The ability for readers to comment on news stories will be soon be the norm, but I don&#039;t think it adds as much value as you predict. I read sfgate.com quite a lot and it has this feature, and I can&#039;t say it plays out anything like what you describe. It usually seems like a place for people to let of steam, make off topic statements, make insults, argue amongst each other, show their stupidity, etc. Theoretically there could be someone with enough facts and writing ability (let&#039;s face it most average people don&#039;t have these skills, that&#039;s why we value trained journalists) who can build on and extend the reporter&#039;s work, but more often than not comments come in the form of attacks on the reporter&#039;s skill, credibility and relevance, with the assumption that the reporting system is bogus, and flawed in the first place. I don&#039;t think the kind of facts, corrections, counterbalance and perspective you describe will be produced.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right. The ability for readers to comment on news stories will be soon be the norm, but I don&#8217;t think it adds as much value as you predict. I read sfgate.com quite a lot and it has this feature, and I can&#8217;t say it plays out anything like what you describe. It usually seems like a place for people to let of steam, make off topic statements, make insults, argue amongst each other, show their stupidity, etc. Theoretically there could be someone with enough facts and writing ability (let&#8217;s face it most average people don&#8217;t have these skills, that&#8217;s why we value trained journalists) who can build on and extend the reporter&#8217;s work, but more often than not comments come in the form of attacks on the reporter&#8217;s skill, credibility and relevance, with the assumption that the reporting system is bogus, and flawed in the first place. I don&#8217;t think the kind of facts, corrections, counterbalance and perspective you describe will be produced.</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What he says</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357697</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; What he says</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 13:45:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357697</guid>
		<description>[...] BuzzMachine by Jeff Jarvis--&gt;      &#171; The L.A. Times responds [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BuzzMachine by Jeff Jarvis&#8211;&gt;      &laquo; The L.A. Times responds [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357693</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:57:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357693</guid>
		<description>Reporters are still needed in a world of diverse websites. Maybe a single or couple sites will become topdog. But when you have 500 blog entries to muttle thru, then what will you do?

Here&#039;s a story from back here. How would I have known of this development without them? I called in to the talkradio for more info please.

Our Miller Group (radio &amp; newspaper) reported about 6 months ago and a new episode yesterday of Landlords arrested and buildings up for confiscation by the legal system for allowing illegal drug activities.

What I don&#039;t get is why the illegal activities are ongoing - can&#039;t Law &amp; Order break the loopholes - and why now it&#039;s the Landlords duty to evict these types from the neighborhoods? IMO very dangerous precedent fellow citizens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reporters are still needed in a world of diverse websites. Maybe a single or couple sites will become topdog. But when you have 500 blog entries to muttle thru, then what will you do?</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s a story from back here. How would I have known of this development without them? I called in to the talkradio for more info please.</p>
<p>Our Miller Group (radio &amp; newspaper) reported about 6 months ago and a new episode yesterday of Landlords arrested and buildings up for confiscation by the legal system for allowing illegal drug activities.</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t get is why the illegal activities are ongoing &#8211; can&#8217;t Law &amp; Order break the loopholes &#8211; and why now it&#8217;s the Landlords duty to evict these types from the neighborhoods? IMO very dangerous precedent fellow citizens.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Wilson</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357690</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Wilson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 11:03:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357690</guid>
		<description>Healey: &quot;It would clearly be better if we enabled people to comment and discuss stories online on the same web page as the stories themselves, and weâ€™re on our way there.&quot;

Eh? Other newspapers don&#039;t seem to have a problem doing this. Here&#039;s just one example from a local paper in Staunton VA:

http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070823/NEWS01/70823001/1002

Maybe the LAT needs a new webmaster. Jeff: Is your son available for consulting? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Healey: &#8220;It would clearly be better if we enabled people to comment and discuss stories online on the same web page as the stories themselves, and weâ€™re on our way there.&#8221;</p>
<p>Eh? Other newspapers don&#8217;t seem to have a problem doing this. Here&#8217;s just one example from a local paper in Staunton VA:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070823/NEWS01/70823001/1002" rel="nofollow">http://www.newsleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070823/NEWS01/70823001/1002</a></p>
<p>Maybe the LAT needs a new webmaster. Jeff: Is your son available for consulting? <img src='http://www.buzzmachine.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Howard Owens</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357689</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard Owens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 10:33:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357689</guid>
		<description>So I&#039;m guessing Jon Healey is reading these comments.

I don&#039;t think you get it, Mr. Healey.

Let&#039;s say company X stonewalls, and then comments as you say ... well, why do you think that ends the conversation.  Company X just made news by their comments, not matter how untruthful. Your story just got better.  The reporter goes and writes a story about the comments and debunks them.  More truth is illuminated.  Readers are better informed, and they have a clearer picture of who company x really is.

This is better journalism.  This is better civics.

Google is HELPING you. And us. If it works (and I&#039;m not sure it will, but I appreciate the effort).

One of the main things that really bugged me about the LAT piece, and I still don&#039;t think you get based on the above, is that you think readers are not smart enough.  That&#039;s the common journalistic hubris.  If we aren&#039;t there to guide readers and make sure their information is properly filtered and balanced, they won&#039;t really be able to figure out things on their own and separate fact from spin, etc. 

But, how good has journalism done at that over the past couple of decades anyway?

First, readers are smarter than most journalists give them credit for; Second, thanks to blogs and such, they&#039;re getting smarter.  The thing about the new information economy is we all have to be smarter, and that&#039;s happening, because we&#039;re largely on our own for filtering news and opinion.  I, for one, thing that&#039;s a good thing.  It&#039;s actually BETTER for democracy.

Sometime you might want to walk across the hall and have a long conversation with Matt Welch about all this.  It would help a lot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So I&#8217;m guessing Jon Healey is reading these comments.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think you get it, Mr. Healey.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s say company X stonewalls, and then comments as you say &#8230; well, why do you think that ends the conversation.  Company X just made news by their comments, not matter how untruthful. Your story just got better.  The reporter goes and writes a story about the comments and debunks them.  More truth is illuminated.  Readers are better informed, and they have a clearer picture of who company x really is.</p>
<p>This is better journalism.  This is better civics.</p>
<p>Google is HELPING you. And us. If it works (and I&#8217;m not sure it will, but I appreciate the effort).</p>
<p>One of the main things that really bugged me about the LAT piece, and I still don&#8217;t think you get based on the above, is that you think readers are not smart enough.  That&#8217;s the common journalistic hubris.  If we aren&#8217;t there to guide readers and make sure their information is properly filtered and balanced, they won&#8217;t really be able to figure out things on their own and separate fact from spin, etc. </p>
<p>But, how good has journalism done at that over the past couple of decades anyway?</p>
<p>First, readers are smarter than most journalists give them credit for; Second, thanks to blogs and such, they&#8217;re getting smarter.  The thing about the new information economy is we all have to be smarter, and that&#8217;s happening, because we&#8217;re largely on our own for filtering news and opinion.  I, for one, thing that&#8217;s a good thing.  It&#8217;s actually BETTER for democracy.</p>
<p>Sometime you might want to walk across the hall and have a long conversation with Matt Welch about all this.  It would help a lot.</p>
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		<title>By: blowback &#171; pat walters</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357672</link>
		<dc:creator>blowback &#171; pat walters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 04:34:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357672</guid>
		<description>[...] Also: Jeff Jarvis weighs in (and gets a response). [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Also: Jeff Jarvis weighs in (and gets a response). [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Bennett</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357669</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Bennett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Aug 2007 03:30:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357669</guid>
		<description>Newspapers are used to having the last word, but this brave new world of interactive networks deprives them of that privilege. The loss of this privilege is no doubt traumatic to them, but they&#039;re smart enough to know there&#039;s no turning back. The first part of the franchise to fall was the false authority of the Editorial, as it was erected on the weakest foundation. Newspaper editorialists are generalists, they were easily trumped by the self-published experts with the blogs. Now the Internet is going after the subjectivity of news coverage, and we don&#039;t know where that&#039;s going.

It&#039;s at least a little encouraging that the LA Times recognizes theoir authority is under attack, even if they&#039;re not quite realistic about the nature of the threat.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newspapers are used to having the last word, but this brave new world of interactive networks deprives them of that privilege. The loss of this privilege is no doubt traumatic to them, but they&#8217;re smart enough to know there&#8217;s no turning back. The first part of the franchise to fall was the false authority of the Editorial, as it was erected on the weakest foundation. Newspaper editorialists are generalists, they were easily trumped by the self-published experts with the blogs. Now the Internet is going after the subjectivity of news coverage, and we don&#8217;t know where that&#8217;s going.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s at least a little encouraging that the LA Times recognizes theoir authority is under attack, even if they&#8217;re not quite realistic about the nature of the threat.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Gauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357641</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:54:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357641</guid>
		<description>same comment...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>same comment&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Healey</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357636</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Healey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Aug 2007 20:03:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/08/22/the-la-times-responds/#comment-357636</guid>
		<description>Hey, Jeff, you might want to reformat this post because it&#039;s not clear where my comment ends and yours begins. I can&#039;t claim credit for the last graf, and you shouldn&#039;t be blamed for the ones above it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, Jeff, you might want to reformat this post because it&#8217;s not clear where my comment ends and yours begins. I can&#8217;t claim credit for the last graf, and you shouldn&#8217;t be blamed for the ones above it.</p>
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