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	<title>Comments on: Cleveland&#8217;s burning river of bloggers</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:12:07 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis speaks &#124; Brewed Fresh Daily</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-366096</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis speaks &#124; Brewed Fresh Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 18:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-366096</guid>
		<description>[...] BuzzMachine Â» Blog Archive Â» Clevelandâ€™s burning river of bloggers    Posted in PeeDeeGate &#124; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BuzzMachine Â» Blog Archive Â» Clevelandâ€™s burning river of bloggers    Posted in PeeDeeGate | [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363107</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Nov 2007 09:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363107</guid>
		<description>Great analysis. Particularly like the line about citizen journalism and citizenship - although I'm hoping that debate doesn't rear its ugly head again...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great analysis. Particularly like the line about citizen journalism and citizenship - although I&#8217;m hoping that debate doesn&#8217;t rear its ugly head again&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: contentious.com - links for 2007-11-10</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363032</link>
		<dc:creator>contentious.com - links for 2007-11-10</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:19:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363032</guid>
		<description>[...] BuzzMachine Â» Blog Archive Â» Clevelandâ€™s burning river of bloggers When is an ombusdman not an ombudsman? When he&#8217;s a corporate mouthpiece. Jeff Jarvis writes of the Cleveland PD: &#8220;When they invited bloggers in, they wanted bloggersâ€™ voice and coolness. But they didnâ€™t want to learn bloggersâ€™ ways.&#8221; (tags: blogging journalism ethics controversy newspapers problems tidbits+fodder analysis transparency) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BuzzMachine Â» Blog Archive Â» Clevelandâ€™s burning river of bloggers When is an ombusdman not an ombudsman? When he&#8217;s a corporate mouthpiece. Jeff Jarvis writes of the Cleveland PD: &#8220;When they invited bloggers in, they wanted bloggersâ€™ voice and coolness. But they didnâ€™t want to learn bloggersâ€™ ways.&#8221; (tags: blogging journalism ethics controversy newspapers problems tidbits+fodder analysis transparency) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Fnarr</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363031</link>
		<dc:creator>Fnarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Nov 2007 12:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363031</guid>
		<description>Spellcheck?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spellcheck?</p>
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		<title>By: chico haas</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363012</link>
		<dc:creator>chico haas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 21:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363012</guid>
		<description>Jeff: you include full disclosures on this blog all the time. You must find it fair and appropriate policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: you include full disclosures on this blog all the time. You must find it fair and appropriate policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ydobon</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363005</link>
		<dc:creator>Ydobon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:52:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363005</guid>
		<description>Newspapers would rather die on their knees than live on their feet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Newspapers would rather die on their knees than live on their feet.</p>
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		<title>By: Recovering Journalist on &#8220;The Cleveland Kerfuffle,&#8221; McClatchy editors on discomfort &#124; Writes Like She Talks</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363003</link>
		<dc:creator>Recovering Journalist on &#8220;The Cleveland Kerfuffle,&#8221; McClatchy editors on discomfort &#124; Writes Like She Talks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 16:46:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363003</guid>
		<description>[...] Mark Potts, at the Recovering Journalist: &#8230;Jeff [Jarvis] has a terrific post on the fiasco in Cleveland in which the Plain Dealer hired some partisan bloggers (good idea) and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mark Potts, at the Recovering Journalist: &#8230;Jeff [Jarvis] has a terrific post on the fiasco in Cleveland in which the Plain Dealer hired some partisan bloggers (good idea) and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363001</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363001</guid>
		<description>What a fiasco! Great work, Jeff-you've got it 100% right. Until newspapers accept that they don't control the agenda anymore and learn to respect their readers--you know, the customers--their well-documented decline will continue and accelerate. The Cleveland situation mirrors so many other newspaper problems in dealing with the new media world order--including fear of what readers will say in comments, half-assed reporter blogs that aren't really blogs, failure to tap into user-generated content that would greatly enhance the professional content. Newspaper editors (and "reader representatives," apparently() need to get their heads out of the sand and get with the 21st century. The alternative is far, far, far worse than what they think they fear about the new forms of media they're trying so hard to control or avoid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a fiasco! Great work, Jeff-you&#8217;ve got it 100% right. Until newspapers accept that they don&#8217;t control the agenda anymore and learn to respect their readers&#8211;you know, the customers&#8211;their well-documented decline will continue and accelerate. The Cleveland situation mirrors so many other newspaper problems in dealing with the new media world order&#8211;including fear of what readers will say in comments, half-assed reporter blogs that aren&#8217;t really blogs, failure to tap into user-generated content that would greatly enhance the professional content. Newspaper editors (and &#8220;reader representatives,&#8221; apparently() need to get their heads out of the sand and get with the 21st century. The alternative is far, far, far worse than what they think they fear about the new forms of media they&#8217;re trying so hard to control or avoid.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363000</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:34:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-363000</guid>
		<description>Not sure why the comment didn't stick but just to answer these questions:

"Iâ€™d like to know whether the PD publishes op-ed pieces from outside contributors (in the paper or on the Web site), and whether it pays them, and whether they are also proscribed from donating to candidates."

I wrote and had published four op-eds I believe over the years (through 2005) with the PD and was never asked about donations and was paid.  I do not know the policy, per se, however, just my experience.  The PD has not, to my knowledge, publicized its oped conflicts/bias/ethics policies.

"Or even if it runs syndicated national opinion columnists (paying for the syndicate) without researching whether they make political donations. If so, then it seems to me the blogger got discriminatory treatment."

I don't know if they research the political donation history of the syndicated writers, or explore the syndicate's policies for those writers that they syndicate.

Interesting questions though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not sure why the comment didn&#8217;t stick but just to answer these questions:</p>
<p>&#8220;Iâ€™d like to know whether the PD publishes op-ed pieces from outside contributors (in the paper or on the Web site), and whether it pays them, and whether they are also proscribed from donating to candidates.&#8221;</p>
<p>I wrote and had published four op-eds I believe over the years (through 2005) with the PD and was never asked about donations and was paid.  I do not know the policy, per se, however, just my experience.  The PD has not, to my knowledge, publicized its oped conflicts/bias/ethics policies.</p>
<p>&#8220;Or even if it runs syndicated national opinion columnists (paying for the syndicate) without researching whether they make political donations. If so, then it seems to me the blogger got discriminatory treatment.&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if they research the political donation history of the syndicated writers, or explore the syndicate&#8217;s policies for those writers that they syndicate.</p>
<p>Interesting questions though.</p>
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		<title>By: rpuck</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362999</link>
		<dc:creator>rpuck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:28:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362999</guid>
		<description>I do not know how the PD stays in business....people may not have gotten there yet but the days of killing trees to throw ads in my front yard are ending.

All opionions have a agenga...period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I do not know how the PD stays in business&#8230;.people may not have gotten there yet but the days of killing trees to throw ads in my front yard are ending.</p>
<p>All opionions have a agenga&#8230;period.</p>
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		<title>By: Badger Gravling</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362998</link>
		<dc:creator>Badger Gravling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 15:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362998</guid>
		<description>The fact that the Plain Dealer site requires a zip code to get to the second page of an article shows what a limited understanding they have about ease of use and usability, let alone blogging.

Thee have been enough cases of bloggers failing to disclose business interests in the past that you'd think everyone would just make an explicit rule of disclosing anything that may directly contribute to your article. 

If you're blogging about politics, and you disclose a $100 contribution, then you credit readers with the intelligence to be able to decide what they might believe or give weighting to...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that the Plain Dealer site requires a zip code to get to the second page of an article shows what a limited understanding they have about ease of use and usability, let alone blogging.</p>
<p>Thee have been enough cases of bloggers failing to disclose business interests in the past that you&#8217;d think everyone would just make an explicit rule of disclosing anything that may directly contribute to your article. </p>
<p>If you&#8217;re blogging about politics, and you disclose a $100 contribution, then you credit readers with the intelligence to be able to decide what they might believe or give weighting to&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: WHAT THEY SAID&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362992</link>
		<dc:creator>WHAT THEY SAID&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:59:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362992</guid>
		<description>[...] of buckling to political pressure and lashes out at the bloggers as aliens to the newspaper ways. Jeff Jarvis     digg_url="http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=5416"; digg_skin = [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of buckling to political pressure and lashes out at the bloggers as aliens to the newspaper ways. Jeff Jarvis     digg_url=&#8221;http://havecoffeewillwrite.com/?p=5416&#8243;; digg_skin = [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Gauvin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362991</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Gauvin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362991</guid>
		<description>What a mess. Sounds like they should have had a clearer working arrangement up front unless you really think blogging = renegade journalists with no rules. This was a loss for citizen journalism (lots of complaining in the blogosphere won't help at this point).

I think bloggers are becoming perceived as the "reality TV" of the internet, with the audience watching and hoping unauthorized, uncensored information might leak through the filters. However, like "reality TV." eventually everyone will be in on the game.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a mess. Sounds like they should have had a clearer working arrangement up front unless you really think blogging = renegade journalists with no rules. This was a loss for citizen journalism (lots of complaining in the blogosphere won&#8217;t help at this point).</p>
<p>I think bloggers are becoming perceived as the &#8220;reality TV&#8221; of the internet, with the audience watching and hoping unauthorized, uncensored information might leak through the filters. However, like &#8220;reality TV.&#8221; eventually everyone will be in on the game.</p>
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		<title>By: NixGuy.com &#187; Jeff Jarvis vs. Ted Diadiun on WO</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362989</link>
		<dc:creator>NixGuy.com &#187; Jeff Jarvis vs. Ted Diadiun on WO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:17:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362989</guid>
		<description>[...] Jarvis: The problem, in my view, is that Diadiun isnâ€™t listening and learning. That, youâ€™d think, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jarvis: The problem, in my view, is that Diadiun isnâ€™t listening and learning. That, youâ€™d think, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anne</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362988</link>
		<dc:creator>Anne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 12:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362988</guid>
		<description>I'd like to know whether the PD publishes op-ed pieces from outside contributors (in the paper or on the Web site), and whether it pays them, and whether they are also proscribed from donating to candidates. Or even if it runs syndicated national opinion columnists (paying for the syndicate) without researching whether they make political donations. If so, then it seems to me the blogger got discriminatory treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to know whether the PD publishes op-ed pieces from outside contributors (in the paper or on the Web site), and whether it pays them, and whether they are also proscribed from donating to candidates. Or even if it runs syndicated national opinion columnists (paying for the syndicate) without researching whether they make political donations. If so, then it seems to me the blogger got discriminatory treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362985</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:34:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362985</guid>
		<description>http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&#38;BookCollection=TVT_AM&#38;ReaderStyle=
Normal&#38;browserWindowWidth=1014&#38;browserWindowHeight=718

I should have tinyurl'd it
and did

http://tinyurl.com/2afc4e</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&amp;BookCollection=TVT_AM&amp;ReaderStyle=" rel="nofollow">http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&amp;BookCollection=TVT_AM&amp;ReaderStyle=</a><br />
Normal&amp;browserWindowWidth=1014&amp;browserWindowHeight=718</p>
<p>I should have tinyurl&#8217;d it<br />
and did</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/2afc4e" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/2afc4e</a></p>
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		<title>By: Greg0658</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362983</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg0658</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 11:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362983</guid>
		<description>Just read the below story and it relates indirectly to this thread. Not wish'g to hijack the thread, so on returning, continue explaining how bloggers have to hold the line in this horse and buggy to automobile evolve'g www world.

TV Tech Page 41 of this online magazine platform is a story on Net Neutrality politics and big business. Its a call to action. Sorry there is not a direct link.

http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&#38;BookCollection=TVT_AM&#38;ReaderStyle=Normal&#38;browserWindowWidth=1014&#38;browserWindowHeight=718</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just read the below story and it relates indirectly to this thread. Not wish&#8217;g to hijack the thread, so on returning, continue explaining how bloggers have to hold the line in this horse and buggy to automobile evolve&#8217;g www world.</p>
<p>TV Tech Page 41 of this online magazine platform is a story on Net Neutrality politics and big business. Its a call to action. Sorry there is not a direct link.</p>
<p><a href="http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&amp;BookCollection=TVT_AM&amp;ReaderStyle=Normal&amp;browserWindowWidth=1014&amp;browserWindowHeight=718" rel="nofollow">http://mag1.olivesoftware.com/ActiveMagazine/getBook.asp?Path=TVT/2007/11/07&amp;BookCollection=TVT_AM&amp;ReaderStyle=Normal&amp;browserWindowWidth=1014&amp;browserWindowHeight=718</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis on "Cleveland's Burning River of Bloggers" &#124; Writes Like She Talks</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362971</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis on "Cleveland's Burning River of Bloggers" &#124; Writes Like She Talks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 03:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362971</guid>
		<description>[...] The latest iteration is by Jeff Jarvis in his post, &#8220;Cleveland&#8217;s Burning River of Bloggers.&#8221;Â  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The latest iteration is by Jeff Jarvis in his post, &#8220;Cleveland&#8217;s Burning River of Bloggers.&#8221;Â  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362970</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 02:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/11/08/clevelands-burning-river-of-bloggers/#comment-362970</guid>
		<description>Wow, Jeff - really - thanks.  

The only other piece of information that really goes to how picked off we were, is that I made donations also - I gave money to US Senator (then candidate) Sherrod Brown and to Ohio AG (then candidate) Marc Dann.

So, if the PD is claiming some high ground once they discovered Jeff's donation, they lost it when they selectively went only to him with the ultimatum that he stop writing about the race and candidates, or he couldn't do the gig anymore.

Because they didn't come to me and say the same.  And they didn't go to the other two, and tell them what was going on. They only went to Jeff, and not any of the other three. At all, to my knowledge. 

Susan Goldberg continues to suggest that if, after they went to Jeff, I'd come to them about my donations, they would have told me the same thing, or something similar (it's not really very clear - sometimes she's suggested that disclosure might have been okay).

That's just absurd. If they were the ones pushing this ironclad standard, then it's reasonable to expect that once they "discovered" this info about Jeff, they'd want to research all of us and approach all of us.

But they didn't do it that way and their failure to treat us with the respect they now say we don't have for their work is an additional cloud (after the just not getting the other realities in the world piece) over everything they've done.  It's the basis for the fact that the PD was pressured to act as it did by the congressman, Steve LaTourette, who gave the PD its "discovery" about Jeff.

Again - thanks for taking the time to write so clearly about this. 

You're prescient pretty often - where do we go from here?  All of us?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Jeff - really - thanks.  </p>
<p>The only other piece of information that really goes to how picked off we were, is that I made donations also - I gave money to US Senator (then candidate) Sherrod Brown and to Ohio AG (then candidate) Marc Dann.</p>
<p>So, if the PD is claiming some high ground once they discovered Jeff&#8217;s donation, they lost it when they selectively went only to him with the ultimatum that he stop writing about the race and candidates, or he couldn&#8217;t do the gig anymore.</p>
<p>Because they didn&#8217;t come to me and say the same.  And they didn&#8217;t go to the other two, and tell them what was going on. They only went to Jeff, and not any of the other three. At all, to my knowledge. </p>
<p>Susan Goldberg continues to suggest that if, after they went to Jeff, I&#8217;d come to them about my donations, they would have told me the same thing, or something similar (it&#8217;s not really very clear - sometimes she&#8217;s suggested that disclosure might have been okay).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s just absurd. If they were the ones pushing this ironclad standard, then it&#8217;s reasonable to expect that once they &#8220;discovered&#8221; this info about Jeff, they&#8217;d want to research all of us and approach all of us.</p>
<p>But they didn&#8217;t do it that way and their failure to treat us with the respect they now say we don&#8217;t have for their work is an additional cloud (after the just not getting the other realities in the world piece) over everything they&#8217;ve done.  It&#8217;s the basis for the fact that the PD was pressured to act as it did by the congressman, Steve LaTourette, who gave the PD its &#8220;discovery&#8221; about Jeff.</p>
<p>Again - thanks for taking the time to write so clearly about this. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re prescient pretty often - where do we go from here?  All of us?</p>
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