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	<title>Comments on: Keller responds</title>
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	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
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		<title>By: ABC Digital Futures &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Peace breaks out in the journalism wars</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364864</link>
		<dc:creator>ABC Digital Futures &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Peace breaks out in the journalism wars</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Dec 2007 00:20:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364864</guid>
		<description>[...] the two have reached an amicable and mutually reassuring position, with Jarvis saying that he and Keller are on the same road, even if they don&#8217;t know where it will [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the two have reached an amicable and mutually reassuring position, with Jarvis saying that he and Keller are on the same road, even if they don&#8217;t know where it will [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Baehr</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364611</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Baehr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Dec 2007 05:02:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364611</guid>
		<description>Reading this exchange along with the comments, it occurs to me that there is a practical problem with tapping the wisdom of crowds -- both for journalists and for readers. Despite technology (or perhaps because of it), it&#039;s very time consuming to work one&#039;s way through the material -- exchanges, links, comments -- to find the nuggets of wisdom. 

(This is especially time-consuming when the comments are as insightful, not to mention literate, as they are here.) 

One of the functions of traditional, one-way, journalism is to select and present information in a way that lets the &quot;audience&quot; pick out and absorb it quickly and efficiently. 

Turning the news into a conversation is a great advance in many ways -- but the resulting exponential increase in both verbiage and information demands a corresponding increase in the amount of time required of both journalists and readers. 

As we all know, time is increasingly scarce and, so far, technology has mostly just allowed us to exchange more information more quickly, but has not offered similar help in the task of absorbing it and making sense of it. 

This may be a limiting factor when it comes to using the wisdom of crowds (or communities) and also a continuing reason why there will continue to be an audience for skilled journalists who are good at separating wheat from chaff and presenting it clearly and concisely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reading this exchange along with the comments, it occurs to me that there is a practical problem with tapping the wisdom of crowds &#8212; both for journalists and for readers. Despite technology (or perhaps because of it), it&#8217;s very time consuming to work one&#8217;s way through the material &#8212; exchanges, links, comments &#8212; to find the nuggets of wisdom. </p>
<p>(This is especially time-consuming when the comments are as insightful, not to mention literate, as they are here.) </p>
<p>One of the functions of traditional, one-way, journalism is to select and present information in a way that lets the &#8220;audience&#8221; pick out and absorb it quickly and efficiently. </p>
<p>Turning the news into a conversation is a great advance in many ways &#8212; but the resulting exponential increase in both verbiage and information demands a corresponding increase in the amount of time required of both journalists and readers. </p>
<p>As we all know, time is increasingly scarce and, so far, technology has mostly just allowed us to exchange more information more quickly, but has not offered similar help in the task of absorbing it and making sense of it. </p>
<p>This may be a limiting factor when it comes to using the wisdom of crowds (or communities) and also a continuing reason why there will continue to be an audience for skilled journalists who are good at separating wheat from chaff and presenting it clearly and concisely.</p>
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		<title>By: Guy Love</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364581</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy Love</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:31:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364581</guid>
		<description>This conversation is interesting in its attempts to bridge the established profession of journalism into the wild, wild, west of the future of journalism.  While these philosophical debates go on, ever improving communication technology continues the process of creative destruction.  It takes no sides and will continue to level the playing field.  Technological displacements are ususally irreversible, journalists of the future will understand that and embrace the new ways of communicating with the average citizen.  

People embrace things that make their life better, and corporations will be forced to follow if they want to stay relevant.  From a historical standpoint, this type of technological &quot;leap forward&quot; has happened to many industries and it is merely the media&#039;s turn to go through this process.  That perspective seems rarely mentioned by those still clinging to the way things were done as they wrestle with how to survive the transition period.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This conversation is interesting in its attempts to bridge the established profession of journalism into the wild, wild, west of the future of journalism.  While these philosophical debates go on, ever improving communication technology continues the process of creative destruction.  It takes no sides and will continue to level the playing field.  Technological displacements are ususally irreversible, journalists of the future will understand that and embrace the new ways of communicating with the average citizen.  </p>
<p>People embrace things that make their life better, and corporations will be forced to follow if they want to stay relevant.  From a historical standpoint, this type of technological &#8220;leap forward&#8221; has happened to many industries and it is merely the media&#8217;s turn to go through this process.  That perspective seems rarely mentioned by those still clinging to the way things were done as they wrestle with how to survive the transition period.</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364577</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:09:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364577</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;For my money, the wisdom of crowds makes be uneasy since crowds are too easily manipulated and morph into mobs as the instigation of a talk radio or cable tv host.&lt;/i&gt;

Wow.  Almost the exact same reaction the Tablet Keepers had to the invention of moveable type.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>For my money, the wisdom of crowds makes be uneasy since crowds are too easily manipulated and morph into mobs as the instigation of a talk radio or cable tv host.</i></p>
<p>Wow.  Almost the exact same reaction the Tablet Keepers had to the invention of moveable type.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy Freeman</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364576</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy Freeman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 20:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364576</guid>
		<description>&gt; But I feel that the very good qualities that make a good reporter, that make a really good reporter a rare thing, arenâ€™t being examined, written about.

I think that they are.  (However, some of that examination is discovering that really good reporters are not necessarily professional journalists.)

Something else is also happening.  The world is discovering that the professional &quot;not so good&quot; reporters can be replaced by blogging hacks.  Folks who used to get paid for that work are understandably upset, but why should the rest of us care?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&gt; But I feel that the very good qualities that make a good reporter, that make a really good reporter a rare thing, arenâ€™t being examined, written about.</p>
<p>I think that they are.  (However, some of that examination is discovering that really good reporters are not necessarily professional journalists.)</p>
<p>Something else is also happening.  The world is discovering that the professional &#8220;not so good&#8221; reporters can be replaced by blogging hacks.  Folks who used to get paid for that work are understandably upset, but why should the rest of us care?</p>
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		<title>By: Robb Montgomery</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364568</link>
		<dc:creator>Robb Montgomery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 19:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364568</guid>
		<description>I think you are still illustrating the finer points very well.

Experience matters. If you are going to lead a print-based operation you will need a lifetime of unique experiences in how that world works and Mr. Keller has that - in spades.
 
If you are going to lead an operation that is digital in nature - your leaders will need a much different background. 
But, money talks and print is making the money.

The big picture for leadership, as I see it, is this. 
When publishers start making as much dough from digital as they do from print - who will they put at the helm? 
Will they hire an editor with a lifetime of digital experience or an editor with a lifetime of print-only experience?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you are still illustrating the finer points very well.</p>
<p>Experience matters. If you are going to lead a print-based operation you will need a lifetime of unique experiences in how that world works and Mr. Keller has that &#8211; in spades.</p>
<p>If you are going to lead an operation that is digital in nature &#8211; your leaders will need a much different background.<br />
But, money talks and print is making the money.</p>
<p>The big picture for leadership, as I see it, is this.<br />
When publishers start making as much dough from digital as they do from print &#8211; who will they put at the helm?<br />
Will they hire an editor with a lifetime of digital experience or an editor with a lifetime of print-only experience?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey Dvorkin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364555</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey Dvorkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 18:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364555</guid>
		<description>Jeff - A useful exchange between you and Bill Keller. I wonder though if Keller isn&#039;t right in one important regard: the &quot;wisdom of crowds&quot; is a somewhat overstated and romantic notion. It might more useful to think of it as the &quot;wisdom of communities.&quot; The Times has a community, not a crowd, just as NPR does. What MSM and the blog-oisie have in common is their sense of community. For my money, the wisdom of crowds makes be uneasy since crowds are too easily manipulated and morph into mobs as the instigation of a talk radio or cable tv host.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff &#8211; A useful exchange between you and Bill Keller. I wonder though if Keller isn&#8217;t right in one important regard: the &#8220;wisdom of crowds&#8221; is a somewhat overstated and romantic notion. It might more useful to think of it as the &#8220;wisdom of communities.&#8221; The Times has a community, not a crowd, just as NPR does. What MSM and the blog-oisie have in common is their sense of community. For my money, the wisdom of crowds makes be uneasy since crowds are too easily manipulated and morph into mobs as the instigation of a talk radio or cable tv host.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364538</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:50:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364538</guid>
		<description>Exactly</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Exactly</p>
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		<title>By: Colin Kerr</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364530</link>
		<dc:creator>Colin Kerr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 16:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364530</guid>
		<description>Good quality writing is good quality writing, online or offline.

Professional journalists should have nothing to fear from weblogs or other online media.

The challenge is to produce the best content for both print and online.

It shouldn&#039;t be an either or situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good quality writing is good quality writing, online or offline.</p>
<p>Professional journalists should have nothing to fear from weblogs or other online media.</p>
<p>The challenge is to produce the best content for both print and online.</p>
<p>It shouldn&#8217;t be an either or situation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364515</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:21:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364515</guid>
		<description>@ Paul Neely

Ok, so you say that a journalist takes the middle ground, because they are exposed to so many opinions and because they are so professional. Fine. Let&#039;s assume that this is true (I wish!). 

So what do they have to worry about then? If what they write is really high quality content, then they do not need to fear anybody - peers, experts, &#039;the crowd&#039;, their editor, anybody really. 

So what is the problem with other people commenting?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Paul Neely</p>
<p>Ok, so you say that a journalist takes the middle ground, because they are exposed to so many opinions and because they are so professional. Fine. Let&#8217;s assume that this is true (I wish!). </p>
<p>So what do they have to worry about then? If what they write is really high quality content, then they do not need to fear anybody &#8211; peers, experts, &#8216;the crowd&#8217;, their editor, anybody really. </p>
<p>So what is the problem with other people commenting?</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Neely</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364507</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Neely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 13:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364507</guid>
		<description>To suggest, as Jens does, that &quot;crowd review&quot; of The New York Times consists of &quot;the occasional reader letter thrown in&quot; -- well, it fails to reach the reasonable middle ground that Jeff and Bill are seeking. A newspaper editor hears review after review, day after day, from readers, sources, experts and the subjects of articles. I always figured those reviews added to the cumulative stored knowledge that gave the newspaper expertise and authority. There is wisdom in crowds, but there is wisdom in experts too, and for those who favor the crowds to say that newspaper editors like Bill Keller just don&#039;t get it is the kind of one-sided failure to grasp the broader picture that they complain of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To suggest, as Jens does, that &#8220;crowd review&#8221; of The New York Times consists of &#8220;the occasional reader letter thrown in&#8221; &#8212; well, it fails to reach the reasonable middle ground that Jeff and Bill are seeking. A newspaper editor hears review after review, day after day, from readers, sources, experts and the subjects of articles. I always figured those reviews added to the cumulative stored knowledge that gave the newspaper expertise and authority. There is wisdom in crowds, but there is wisdom in experts too, and for those who favor the crowds to say that newspaper editors like Bill Keller just don&#8217;t get it is the kind of one-sided failure to grasp the broader picture that they complain of.</p>
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		<title>By: Jens</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364502</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 12:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364502</guid>
		<description>The whole concept of print journalism is based in a one way publishing system with the occasional reader letter thrown in. This gives journalists and newspaper a lot of authority.

The Internet enables a two way discussion on each individual article. This is very scary for many writers, not just journalists. From my personal perspective, I bet you that for each topic that I personally have written about in the past, there is at least one person in the world (and probably far more!) who actually know the subject better than I do. This means that when I allow comments on my articles, I expose myself to getting comments from more knowledgeable people. In the scientific research world, this is called: &quot;peer review&quot;. Peer review is a brilliant way to ensure the quality of publications is as high as possible. 

However, with blogs, you have a different kind of &#039;peer review&#039;, let&#039;s call it &#039;crowd review&#039;. Also: the review comes after you have published, not before. I think that most journalists and newspapers feel that &#039;post publishing crowd review&#039; is beneath them. To paraphrase: &quot;How dare these unprofessional people critique my work, what do they know!&quot;

I think this is at the heart of all these discussions. Crowd review dimishes the authority of the journalists and the newspapers, but it probably increases the quality of articles. 

I think this is where the battle lines are drawn. People like Jeff probably care more about the quality of journalism/ quality of articles whereas others care more about their authority. 

In my view, it is not that hard to guess who will win in the long run...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The whole concept of print journalism is based in a one way publishing system with the occasional reader letter thrown in. This gives journalists and newspaper a lot of authority.</p>
<p>The Internet enables a two way discussion on each individual article. This is very scary for many writers, not just journalists. From my personal perspective, I bet you that for each topic that I personally have written about in the past, there is at least one person in the world (and probably far more!) who actually know the subject better than I do. This means that when I allow comments on my articles, I expose myself to getting comments from more knowledgeable people. In the scientific research world, this is called: &#8220;peer review&#8221;. Peer review is a brilliant way to ensure the quality of publications is as high as possible. </p>
<p>However, with blogs, you have a different kind of &#8216;peer review&#8217;, let&#8217;s call it &#8216;crowd review&#8217;. Also: the review comes after you have published, not before. I think that most journalists and newspapers feel that &#8216;post publishing crowd review&#8217; is beneath them. To paraphrase: &#8220;How dare these unprofessional people critique my work, what do they know!&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this is at the heart of all these discussions. Crowd review dimishes the authority of the journalists and the newspapers, but it probably increases the quality of articles. </p>
<p>I think this is where the battle lines are drawn. People like Jeff probably care more about the quality of journalism/ quality of articles whereas others care more about their authority. </p>
<p>In my view, it is not that hard to guess who will win in the long run&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364494</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 10:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364494</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Still, I have to wonder if the demise of The New York Times and its brethren, or their conversion into common carriers of unvetted voices, would not diminish civic, and civil, discourse. (Just look at the tone of some rants above for evidence of the latter.)&lt;/i&gt;

Rant?  Where?  I&#039;ve seen no rants in this comment section.  Pointed comments, yes, but quite civil.

This dismissive comment is typical of the attitude of the dinosaur media.  They do not understand what they&#039;re up against.  Nor do they want to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Still, I have to wonder if the demise of The New York Times and its brethren, or their conversion into common carriers of unvetted voices, would not diminish civic, and civil, discourse. (Just look at the tone of some rants above for evidence of the latter.)</i></p>
<p>Rant?  Where?  I&#8217;ve seen no rants in this comment section.  Pointed comments, yes, but quite civil.</p>
<p>This dismissive comment is typical of the attitude of the dinosaur media.  They do not understand what they&#8217;re up against.  Nor do they want to.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Boriss</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364483</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Boriss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 05:42:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364483</guid>
		<description>Jeff, Sometimes from reading your blog and the comments, and reflecting on my own experience, I get the feeling you are trying to do something that cannot be done -- bridge two completely different cultures.  If Keller is representative of senior management at leading newspapers, and I suspect he is, they are not open-minded enough about how journalism can be practiced to consider ideas like citizen/networked journalism.  On the other hand, if you go to the blogosphere or Silicon Valley, they inherently understand that newspapers are archaic and will die soon, and would have to be convinced from the ground-up that mainstream journalists will have anything to do with the future of news.  Given the difference in cultures, it&#039;s hard for me to imagine mainstream outlets cooperating with you and harder still for me to imagine that they will emerge as leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, Sometimes from reading your blog and the comments, and reflecting on my own experience, I get the feeling you are trying to do something that cannot be done &#8212; bridge two completely different cultures.  If Keller is representative of senior management at leading newspapers, and I suspect he is, they are not open-minded enough about how journalism can be practiced to consider ideas like citizen/networked journalism.  On the other hand, if you go to the blogosphere or Silicon Valley, they inherently understand that newspapers are archaic and will die soon, and would have to be convinced from the ground-up that mainstream journalists will have anything to do with the future of news.  Given the difference in cultures, it&#8217;s hard for me to imagine mainstream outlets cooperating with you and harder still for me to imagine that they will emerge as leaders.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Neely</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364480</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Neely</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 04:48:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364480</guid>
		<description>I am not surprised by Bill Keller&#039;s impression from a couple of years ago that Jeff Jarvis was a blog triumphalist. There was a lot from Jeff then that was snarky and snide, but I&#039;m sure not going to invest the time to go research chapter and verse, as I&#039;m sure Jeff would challenge. Of course, one man&#039;s snarky and snide is another man&#039;s perceptive and sharp. Even so, I think Jeff rightfully takes credit for a certain mellowing and middle-grounding since then, so in that context maybe he has to admit that there was some rhetorical roughing, even on his side of things. 
In 1984, I wrote an article for the American Society of Newspaper Editors Bulletin proposing that newspapers should do away with institutional editorials and instead make their opinion pages into something more like a print-version Hyde Park, so I am not just a troglodyte former newspaper publisher (although the last three words are accurate). Still, I have to wonder if the demise of The New York Times and its brethren, or their conversion into common carriers of unvetted voices, would not diminish civic, and civil, discourse. (Just look at the tone of some rants above for evidence of the latter.) 
I am not sure that the babble of the crowd, even refined by a vast marketplace of ideas, is worth the demolition of authoritativeness (not authority), and under the progression of the current business model, I don&#039;t see how traditional media can support the cost of that authoritativeness into the future. When the New York Times sent Bill Keller to Moscow as its correspondent, first they paid to send him to immersion language school. Who&#039;s going to do that sort of thing  ten years from now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not surprised by Bill Keller&#8217;s impression from a couple of years ago that Jeff Jarvis was a blog triumphalist. There was a lot from Jeff then that was snarky and snide, but I&#8217;m sure not going to invest the time to go research chapter and verse, as I&#8217;m sure Jeff would challenge. Of course, one man&#8217;s snarky and snide is another man&#8217;s perceptive and sharp. Even so, I think Jeff rightfully takes credit for a certain mellowing and middle-grounding since then, so in that context maybe he has to admit that there was some rhetorical roughing, even on his side of things.<br />
In 1984, I wrote an article for the American Society of Newspaper Editors Bulletin proposing that newspapers should do away with institutional editorials and instead make their opinion pages into something more like a print-version Hyde Park, so I am not just a troglodyte former newspaper publisher (although the last three words are accurate). Still, I have to wonder if the demise of The New York Times and its brethren, or their conversion into common carriers of unvetted voices, would not diminish civic, and civil, discourse. (Just look at the tone of some rants above for evidence of the latter.)<br />
I am not sure that the babble of the crowd, even refined by a vast marketplace of ideas, is worth the demolition of authoritativeness (not authority), and under the progression of the current business model, I don&#8217;t see how traditional media can support the cost of that authoritativeness into the future. When the New York Times sent Bill Keller to Moscow as its correspondent, first they paid to send him to immersion language school. Who&#8217;s going to do that sort of thing  ten years from now?</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364471</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:43:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364471</guid>
		<description>There is also opportunity. Change brings not just despair but opportunity, if you&#039;re willing to see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is also opportunity. Change brings not just despair but opportunity, if you&#8217;re willing to see it.</p>
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		<title>By: O-Shift</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364470</link>
		<dc:creator>O-Shift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Dec 2007 02:40:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364470</guid>
		<description>My take away from some of the things that you have written, Jeff, on networked journalism, is that the role of reporters is not only changed but diminished. 

I realize journalist ranks are thining -- I&#039;ve been in it nearly 30 years now --- and I know what&#039;s coming, what&#039;s changing. 

But I feel that the very good qualities that make a good reporter, that make a really good reporter a rare thing, aren&#039;t being examined, written about. You are in the position to do so. 

You have a tendency to reduce this business and your solutions to formula. It&#039;s evident in your response to Keller; In parsing old statements it&#039;s easy to miss new jumping off points and Keller offered you a very good one:  
  
&quot;It is the despair that derives from an inability to see the enduring value of the old and the promise of the new.&quot;

I think Keller&#039;s use of the word despair is perfect. It&#039;s not the despair of someone who has given up hope, but the despair of people who feel that their value of what they have learned is being diminished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My take away from some of the things that you have written, Jeff, on networked journalism, is that the role of reporters is not only changed but diminished. </p>
<p>I realize journalist ranks are thining &#8212; I&#8217;ve been in it nearly 30 years now &#8212; and I know what&#8217;s coming, what&#8217;s changing. </p>
<p>But I feel that the very good qualities that make a good reporter, that make a really good reporter a rare thing, aren&#8217;t being examined, written about. You are in the position to do so. </p>
<p>You have a tendency to reduce this business and your solutions to formula. It&#8217;s evident in your response to Keller; In parsing old statements it&#8217;s easy to miss new jumping off points and Keller offered you a very good one:  </p>
<p>&#8220;It is the despair that derives from an inability to see the enduring value of the old and the promise of the new.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think Keller&#8217;s use of the word despair is perfect. It&#8217;s not the despair of someone who has given up hope, but the despair of people who feel that their value of what they have learned is being diminished.</p>
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		<title>By: THE REAL ENEMY at WHAT&#8217;S NEXT: INNOVATIONS IN NEWSPAPERS</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364468</link>
		<dc:creator>THE REAL ENEMY at WHAT&#8217;S NEXT: INNOVATIONS IN NEWSPAPERS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364468</guid>
		<description>[...] Keller, editor of The New York Times writes to Jeff Jarvis: The enemy, as I said in the speech, is not disruptive technology, not bloggers, not press-hostile [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Keller, editor of The New York Times writes to Jeff Jarvis: The enemy, as I said in the speech, is not disruptive technology, not bloggers, not press-hostile [...]</p>
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		<title>By: tom botkin</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364465</link>
		<dc:creator>tom botkin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364465</guid>
		<description>i applaud the generousity of spirit captured by keller&#039;s remarks. it&#039;s what i have come to expect from the nytimes. sadly, you don&#039;t find anything of the sort in abbott&#039;s (hey, abbott!) sour commentary posted above. the times is working its way into the digital era and, happily, is going to be around for quite a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i applaud the generousity of spirit captured by keller&#8217;s remarks. it&#8217;s what i have come to expect from the nytimes. sadly, you don&#8217;t find anything of the sort in abbott&#8217;s (hey, abbott!) sour commentary posted above. the times is working its way into the digital era and, happily, is going to be around for quite a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364464</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 23:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364464</guid>
		<description>Steve,
I&#039;ve talked and written about that many times. Why do you think I&#039;m teaching in a journalism school?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,<br />
I&#8217;ve talked and written about that many times. Why do you think I&#8217;m teaching in a journalism school?</p>
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		<title>By: CaptiousNut</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364463</link>
		<dc:creator>CaptiousNut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364463</guid>
		<description>Bill Keller says, &quot;Thatâ€™s especially true when you have an audience as educated and engaged as ours.&quot;

Educated and engaged?

His readers seem to be *dis-engaging* more each day.  The NYT stock price is dropping faster than a Jersey girl on prom night.  Keller&#039;s sure doing a wonderful job!

As for how *educated* his audience is...I must say that biggest dolts I know personally get up every morning and inhale NYT tripe.

Bloggers would hardly exist if *professional* journalists were faintly acquainted with the notion of objectivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill Keller says, &#8220;Thatâ€™s especially true when you have an audience as educated and engaged as ours.&#8221;</p>
<p>Educated and engaged?</p>
<p>His readers seem to be *dis-engaging* more each day.  The NYT stock price is dropping faster than a Jersey girl on prom night.  Keller&#8217;s sure doing a wonderful job!</p>
<p>As for how *educated* his audience is&#8230;I must say that biggest dolts I know personally get up every morning and inhale NYT tripe.</p>
<p>Bloggers would hardly exist if *professional* journalists were faintly acquainted with the notion of objectivity.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Boriss</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364456</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Boriss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 21:00:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364456</guid>
		<description>Jeff, I have tremendous respect for you and your blog, but I predict the time is coming soon when you will find yourself having to decide whether you are truly committed to going wherever technology and the marketplace take us, or remain loyal to a close variant of the Modern Journalism practices of the NY Times, which are less than 100 years old and are now being tested.  There is an awful lot in mainstream journalism that is simply not worth preserving, including the objectivity model that the British never accepted and the false claims of verification.  I hope you will join those of us who are untethered from the legacy of Walter Lippmann&#039;s scientific journalism and wish to make news what Thomas Jefferson really wanted it to be &quot;a multitude of voices competing in a freewheeling marketplace of ideas.&quot; (Steve Boriss, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.thefutureofnews&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Future of News&lt;/a&gt;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff, I have tremendous respect for you and your blog, but I predict the time is coming soon when you will find yourself having to decide whether you are truly committed to going wherever technology and the marketplace take us, or remain loyal to a close variant of the Modern Journalism practices of the NY Times, which are less than 100 years old and are now being tested.  There is an awful lot in mainstream journalism that is simply not worth preserving, including the objectivity model that the British never accepted and the false claims of verification.  I hope you will join those of us who are untethered from the legacy of Walter Lippmann&#8217;s scientific journalism and wish to make news what Thomas Jefferson really wanted it to be &#8220;a multitude of voices competing in a freewheeling marketplace of ideas.&#8221; (Steve Boriss, <a href="http://www.thefutureofnews" rel="nofollow">The Future of News</a>)</p>
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		<title>By: Walter Abbott</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364454</link>
		<dc:creator>Walter Abbott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Dec 2007 19:47:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/04/keller-responds/#comment-364454</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

You&#039;re wasting your time with Bill Keller and his soulmates.  He lives - and will die - in a world of command information.  &quot;That&#039;s the way it is, December 4, 2007,&quot; and suchlike.  His entire working career was devoted to it.  It represented tremendous power and his type will NEVER relinquish that power willingly.

I&#039;m a lifelong conservative media watcher and I read your blog every day.  Not because I agree with your politics, but because you have figured out that the day of &quot;command information&quot; is forever gone. Gone with the wind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>You&#8217;re wasting your time with Bill Keller and his soulmates.  He lives &#8211; and will die &#8211; in a world of command information.  &#8220;That&#8217;s the way it is, December 4, 2007,&#8221; and suchlike.  His entire working career was devoted to it.  It represented tremendous power and his type will NEVER relinquish that power willingly.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m a lifelong conservative media watcher and I read your blog every day.  Not because I agree with your politics, but because you have figured out that the day of &#8220;command information&#8221; is forever gone. Gone with the wind.</p>
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