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	<title>Comments on: The social flight</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 00:54:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: .: Global Traveler Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Airlines: What If...? :.</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-376060</link>
		<dc:creator>.: Global Traveler Blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Airlines: What If...? :.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 12:29:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-376060</guid>
		<description>[...] all. While Jarvis didn&#8217;t have anything new to say about that, the blog did have a link to a December column of his that I missed, and it has some fascinating [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] all. While Jarvis didn&#8217;t have anything new to say about that, the blog did have a link to a December column of his that I missed, and it has some fascinating [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The View from Harvard Business mobile edition</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-376007</link>
		<dc:creator>The View from Harvard Business mobile edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 16:50:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-376007</guid>
		<description>[...] solution for reinventing the airline industry comes from BuzzMachine blogger Jeff Jarvis, who urges airlines to build Internet-based social networks around every [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] solution for reinventing the airline industry comes from BuzzMachine blogger Jeff Jarvis, who urges airlines to build Internet-based social networks around every [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Grounded</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375987</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Grounded</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 12:30:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375987</guid>
		<description>[...] Unimaginative business is also bad business. Rather than trying to make the business work charging us for every breath, maybe the airlines should be looking at alternatives: advertising or gambling on the plane and even this. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Unimaginative business is also bad business. Rather than trying to make the business work charging us for every breath, maybe the airlines should be looking at alternatives: advertising or gambling on the plane and even this. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fly Silverjet, please</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375554</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Fly Silverjet, please</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 21:34:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375554</guid>
		<description>[...] the way, OpenSkies is trying to market itself virally with a blog, even, which I learned about in a comment here from someone who wondered whether they were following my advice. We&#8217;ll [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the way, OpenSkies is trying to market itself virally with a blog, even, which I learned about in a comment here from someone who wondered whether they were following my advice. We&#8217;ll [...]</p>
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		<title>By: le big z</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375414</link>
		<dc:creator>le big z</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 May 2008 13:52:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-375414</guid>
		<description>well, someone obviously liked your idea:
http://www.viralblog.com/2008/05/20/openskies-builds-airline-with-community-input/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, someone obviously liked your idea:<br />
<a href="http://www.viralblog.com/2008/05/20/openskies-builds-airline-with-community-input/" rel="nofollow">http://www.viralblog.com/2008/05/20/openskies-builds-airline-with-community-input/</a></p>
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		<title>By: www.bastimmers.nl &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diginews 21: Toekomst kranten is niet gratis (2)</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-369566</link>
		<dc:creator>www.bastimmers.nl &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Diginews 21: Toekomst kranten is niet gratis (2)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-369566</guid>
		<description>[...] tail&#8217; Anderson over business models - De Nieuwe Reporter: Businessmodellen voor content - Jeff &#8216;Buzzmachine&#8217; Jarvis: The social flight - Randy Bennett: Imagining the future of newspapers (pdf)  Stem of voeg toe aan  :             [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] tail&#8217; Anderson over business models - De Nieuwe Reporter: Businessmodellen voor content - Jeff &#8216;Buzzmachine&#8217; Jarvis: The social flight - Randy Bennett: Imagining the future of newspapers (pdf)  Stem of voeg toe aan  :             [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reinventing Sears</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-367889</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reinventing Sears</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2008 16:29:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-367889</guid>
		<description>[...] of reinventing companies and industries in the digital age. Here&#8217;s my proposal for the social airline. I&#8217;ll write one soon about [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of reinventing companies and industries in the digital age. Here&#8217;s my proposal for the social airline. I&#8217;ll write one soon about [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cruel to be kind</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-367098</link>
		<dc:creator>cruel to be kind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-367098</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Dear DLD Lufthansa Technology Forum ... if you ask for participation, you should publish it as well ......&lt;/strong&gt;

Lufthansa is being one of the sponsors for DLD and given how many interesting, well travelled people will be arriving, they thought of asking the question

So our question to you is:
In view of modern rail travel concepts, what innovative ideas and ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Dear DLD Lufthansa Technology Forum &#8230; if you ask for participation, you should publish it as well &#8230;&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Lufthansa is being one of the sponsors for DLD and given how many interesting, well travelled people will be arriving, they thought of asking the question</p>
<p>So our question to you is:<br />
In view of modern rail travel concepts, what innovative ideas and &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Velkommen ombord pÃ¥ den sociale flyrejse - dSeneste</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366577</link>
		<dc:creator>Velkommen ombord pÃ¥ den sociale flyrejse - dSeneste</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 10:13:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366577</guid>
		<description>[...] Det er bare de oplagte muligheder. Jeff Jarvis har tÃ¦nkt meget lÃ¦ngere: The social flight. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Det er bare de oplagte muligheder. Jeff Jarvis har tÃ¦nkt meget lÃ¦ngere: The social flight. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In defense of Facebook</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366275</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; In defense of Facebook</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 01:28:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366275</guid>
		<description>[...] I think they&#8217;re onto something. See what Matt McAlister says responding to my musings about airlines capturing the wisdom of their crowds the last few days: Carrying the theme to retail markets, you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I think they&#8217;re onto something. See what Matt McAlister says responding to my musings about airlines capturing the wisdom of their crowds the last few days: Carrying the theme to retail markets, you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#8220;What do my customers know and how do I help them share that?&#8221; - Making Travel Guides Social &#171; Chasing the Southern Cross</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366265</link>
		<dc:creator>&#8220;What do my customers know and how do I help them share that?&#8221; - Making Travel Guides Social &#171; Chasing the Southern Cross</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 22:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366265</guid>
		<description>[...] to figure out how to use the web to their advantage (from the Times) and the concept of a social airline.Â  And I quote: &#8220;Airlines should capture the knowledge of their wise-about-traveling crowds. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to figure out how to use the web to their advantage (from the Times) and the concept of a social airline.Â  And I quote: &#8220;Airlines should capture the knowledge of their wise-about-traveling crowds. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Matt McAlister &#187; The useful convergence of data</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366244</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt McAlister &#187; The useful convergence of data</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366244</guid>
		<description>[...] Jarvis&#8217; insightful post on social airlines starts to show how these concepts might form in all kinds of markets. When you&#8217;re traveling [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jarvis&#8217; insightful post on social airlines starts to show how these concepts might form in all kinds of markets. When you&#8217;re traveling [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Friendly Skies: Social Airline? &#171; thedistillery</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366242</link>
		<dc:creator>The Friendly Skies: Social Airline? &#171; thedistillery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 18:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366242</guid>
		<description>[...] Posted in Uncategorized at 10:41 am by Ben smart stuff from Jeff Jarvis over at BuzzMachine Furthering my ruminations on the social airlineâ€¦. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Posted in Uncategorized at 10:41 am by Ben smart stuff from Jeff Jarvis over at BuzzMachine Furthering my ruminations on the social airlineâ€¦. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If airlines became publishers</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366233</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If airlines became publishers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 14:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366233</guid>
		<description>[...] Furthering my ruminations on the social airline&#8230;. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Furthering my ruminations on the social airline&#8230;. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Frith</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366143</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Frith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jan 2008 06:05:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366143</guid>
		<description>Its frustrating having ideas like this for the last few years and seeing them on other blogs. But also its confirms what I've been thinking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Its frustrating having ideas like this for the last few years and seeing them on other blogs. But also its confirms what I&#8217;ve been thinking.</p>
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		<title>By: The Cool Kids&#8217; Guide to Blogging 2008 - Liz Strauss at Successful Blog - Thinking, writing, business ideas . . . You are only a stranger once.</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366123</link>
		<dc:creator>The Cool Kids&#8217; Guide to Blogging 2008 - Liz Strauss at Successful Blog - Thinking, writing, business ideas . . . You are only a stranger once.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Jan 2008 16:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366123</guid>
		<description>[...] Jarvis is proposing a Social Airline. I like the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jarvis is proposing a Social Airline. I like the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Taking flight &#8212; and fixing it</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366106</link>
		<dc:creator>BuzzMachine &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Taking flight &#8212; and fixing it</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 21:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366106</guid>
		<description>[...] other day, I wrote about how I&#8217;d like to see airplane flights become social economies as a way to improve and add value to the now-tortured experience. Of course, much of the hassle of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] other day, I wrote about how I&#8217;d like to see airplane flights become social economies as a way to improve and add value to the now-tortured experience. Of course, much of the hassle of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Safran</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366068</link>
		<dc:creator>Safran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Dec 2007 05:23:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366068</guid>
		<description>Jeff:  A brilliant, succinct reboot for an industry badly in need of one. The airlines are the only industry I know of where the answer to the question "why don't you do things better" is thrown back in the customers' faces. It's BS. They have regs to protect the airlines, the unions, the pilots, the flight personnel - everyone except their customers. Our needs come last.

They have to stop blaming us for their problems. Someone else came along and did it cheaper and more efficiently? Too bad. You were stuck with dated systems? Sorry. We won't pay extra to keep that in place. But we will pay for good service. We will become dedicated brand evangelists if given just a smidge more attention. (JetBlue gave us TVs. That's all it took. TVs and blue potato chips.)

Suppose you had a "brand name," slightly higher-priced airline. Suppose it were 25% more per round trip for a great in-flight experience. If it were my company, I would want to ensure my employees were fresh for a major meeting at which big money could be on the line. Again, market forces: the companies that treat their employees best will get the best employees and will prosper. 

Jeff's right - deregulation's not the problem - the airlines' inability to take advantage of the social tools that would bring about greater efficiencies is what's dragging them down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff:  A brilliant, succinct reboot for an industry badly in need of one. The airlines are the only industry I know of where the answer to the question &#8220;why don&#8217;t you do things better&#8221; is thrown back in the customers&#8217; faces. It&#8217;s BS. They have regs to protect the airlines, the unions, the pilots, the flight personnel - everyone except their customers. Our needs come last.</p>
<p>They have to stop blaming us for their problems. Someone else came along and did it cheaper and more efficiently? Too bad. You were stuck with dated systems? Sorry. We won&#8217;t pay extra to keep that in place. But we will pay for good service. We will become dedicated brand evangelists if given just a smidge more attention. (JetBlue gave us TVs. That&#8217;s all it took. TVs and blue potato chips.)</p>
<p>Suppose you had a &#8220;brand name,&#8221; slightly higher-priced airline. Suppose it were 25% more per round trip for a great in-flight experience. If it were my company, I would want to ensure my employees were fresh for a major meeting at which big money could be on the line. Again, market forces: the companies that treat their employees best will get the best employees and will prosper. </p>
<p>Jeff&#8217;s right - deregulation&#8217;s not the problem - the airlines&#8217; inability to take advantage of the social tools that would bring about greater efficiencies is what&#8217;s dragging them down.</p>
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		<title>By: John Cowan</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366009</link>
		<dc:creator>John Cowan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Dec 2007 04:43:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-366009</guid>
		<description>Precisely because you can't resell tickets or miles, the airlines can engage in price discrimination, selling high to the rich and low to the poor.  That doesn't work in a free market, because the poor will buy extra stuff for resale to the rich.  But thanks to the War On Terror, ticket resale under the counter is effectively impossible, and the airlines get to grab all the consumer surplus.  Allowing a free market would sacrifice all that monopolistic gain, probably pushing them over the edge into bankruptcy.  They are well aware of this, so: never gonna happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Precisely because you can&#8217;t resell tickets or miles, the airlines can engage in price discrimination, selling high to the rich and low to the poor.  That doesn&#8217;t work in a free market, because the poor will buy extra stuff for resale to the rich.  But thanks to the War On Terror, ticket resale under the counter is effectively impossible, and the airlines get to grab all the consumer surplus.  Allowing a free market would sacrifice all that monopolistic gain, probably pushing them over the edge into bankruptcy.  They are well aware of this, so: never gonna happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregor J. Rothfuss</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365997</link>
		<dc:creator>Gregor J. Rothfuss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:45:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365997</guid>
		<description>For social flight, try http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/15/a-conversation-with-ed-iacobucci-about-the-reinvention-of-air-travel/

As long as we continue to be stuck in a decrepit air traffic system that relies on 1930-era technology instead of satellite navigation, the industry is basically unfixable. Of course the program to fix the situation http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/ is years behind schedule, and on a 20 year time scale, which makes it pretty much useless.

What is wrong with drastically reducing F2F meetings? If half the sales drones stayed in the office and used video conferencing, there would be seats available. WIth the billions of savings, you could easily buy all the Cisco telepresence gear you need. http://futurist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/10/ciscos_hd_video.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For social flight, try <a href="http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/15/a-conversation-with-ed-iacobucci-about-the-reinvention-of-air-travel/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.jonudell.net/2007/09/15/a-conversation-with-ed-iacobucci-about-the-reinvention-of-air-travel/</a></p>
<p>As long as we continue to be stuck in a decrepit air traffic system that relies on 1930-era technology instead of satellite navigation, the industry is basically unfixable. Of course the program to fix the situation <a href="http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/" rel="nofollow">http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/ato/service_units/enroute/surveillance_broadcast/</a> is years behind schedule, and on a 20 year time scale, which makes it pretty much useless.</p>
<p>What is wrong with drastically reducing F2F meetings? If half the sales drones stayed in the office and used video conferencing, there would be seats available. WIth the billions of savings, you could easily buy all the Cisco telepresence gear you need. <a href="http://futurist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/10/ciscos_hd_video.html" rel="nofollow">http://futurist.typepad.com/my_weblog/2006/10/ciscos_hd_video.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365996</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 21:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365996</guid>
		<description>Gee.  Those sound like some dandy innovations.

I would just be happy if Delta could just give me my seat assignments all the way through when I first check in so that I could read a book while connecting in the Atlanta airport instead of having to keep an eagle eye out for the harried and overworked Delta employee to dash from the last departure to my gate right before the plane starts boarding.  

I understand why airlines overbook and I understand why they jam us in like cattle I understand why they park on the apron so that we can't get off the airplane.  What I don't understand is why they cannot give seat assignments all the way through for connecting flights.  In what possible way does that squeeze a few more bucks out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee.  Those sound like some dandy innovations.</p>
<p>I would just be happy if Delta could just give me my seat assignments all the way through when I first check in so that I could read a book while connecting in the Atlanta airport instead of having to keep an eagle eye out for the harried and overworked Delta employee to dash from the last departure to my gate right before the plane starts boarding.  </p>
<p>I understand why airlines overbook and I understand why they jam us in like cattle I understand why they park on the apron so that we can&#8217;t get off the airplane.  What I don&#8217;t understand is why they cannot give seat assignments all the way through for connecting flights.  In what possible way does that squeeze a few more bucks out?</p>
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		<title>By: internet marketing pr</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365992</link>
		<dc:creator>internet marketing pr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 18:09:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365992</guid>
		<description>Flying has never been so awesome. Connecting in the air is the best.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flying has never been so awesome. Connecting in the air is the best.</p>
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		<title>By: Chester White</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365991</link>
		<dc:creator>Chester White</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 17:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365991</guid>
		<description>Jeff Jarvis wrote:

"Iâ€™m invested in Continental. Iâ€™m very happy their miles donâ€™t expire. But Iâ€™ve never been able to use them."

Someone mentioned www.flyertalk.com, which is the place for you to visit and start looking for tips on how to use your "Nonepass" miles.

What I did with my CO miles about a month ago was transfer them to Amtrak 1:1, then to Choice Privileges 1:5, then to Southwest RR credits 2500:1. 16 RR credits is a round trip; 100 in a year gets you a Companion Pass (free travel for a named Companion for 12 months). To do this, you need to have the Amtrak CC and either the Choice Visa or stay once in a while at Choice hotels (Comfort Inn, etc.).

And the Amtrak to Choice rate is now only 1:3 (because of guys like me, I might add). But still a passable deal and a way to launder CO Nonepass into at least SOMETHING.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff Jarvis wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;Iâ€™m invested in Continental. Iâ€™m very happy their miles donâ€™t expire. But Iâ€™ve never been able to use them.&#8221;</p>
<p>Someone mentioned <a href="http://www.flyertalk.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.flyertalk.com</a>, which is the place for you to visit and start looking for tips on how to use your &#8220;Nonepass&#8221; miles.</p>
<p>What I did with my CO miles about a month ago was transfer them to Amtrak 1:1, then to Choice Privileges 1:5, then to Southwest RR credits 2500:1. 16 RR credits is a round trip; 100 in a year gets you a Companion Pass (free travel for a named Companion for 12 months). To do this, you need to have the Amtrak CC and either the Choice Visa or stay once in a while at Choice hotels (Comfort Inn, etc.).</p>
<p>And the Amtrak to Choice rate is now only 1:3 (because of guys like me, I might add). But still a passable deal and a way to launder CO Nonepass into at least SOMETHING.</p>
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		<title>By: What's the shittiest airport in the world? - Page 4 - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365983</link>
		<dc:creator>What's the shittiest airport in the world? - Page 4 - TeakDoor.com - The Thailand Forum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 12:56:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365983</guid>
		<description>[...] Air travel as it used to be...    It used to be 'civilized' ...  BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The social flight [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Air travel as it used to be&#8230;    It used to be &#8216;civilized&#8217; &#8230;  BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The social flight [...]</p>
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		<title>By: MikeS</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365980</link>
		<dc:creator>MikeS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 10:38:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/2007/12/27/the-social-flight/#comment-365980</guid>
		<description>TAF wrote:

"As an aside, for those folks who think that 'low cost' airlines like Southwest are the driver here, do a quick price comparison. SW etc. arenâ€™t cheaper than the traditional airlinesâ€¦I donâ€™t understand where the notion that they are comes from."
_____________________

The "notion" (which isn't merely a notion) that low cost carriers are the economic benchmark comes from industry-wide experience.  

The ticket prices didn't start out being even.  Low cost airlines, such as Southwest, used their advantages over time to get market penetration.  Those advantages included lower labor costs, smaller (thus cheaper to operate) aircraft, careful targeting of vulnerable routes often avoiding the major airports, and no-frills, point to point travel that avoided the cost of a hub and spoke network.  This all added up to a much smaller cost per available seat mile (CASM) which gave the LLCs a decisive competitive advantage.  Targeted use of cut rate, $49 type fares allowed them to gain market share almost anywhere they chose.  

The traditional mainline carriers, on the other hand, had high labor costs, larger "legacy" aircraft, and the expensive hub and spoke system, while relying heavily on non-discounted full business fares to offset any losses in coach.  These larger carriers simply had to adjust, especially when the bottom fell out of the business market after the dot.com collapse.  9/11 also had a terrible impact on large carriers who lost billions annually for a number of years, forcing them to reorganize themselves radically.  

The first thing they did was rid themselves of low density routes, which placed more emphasis on getting the most out of their high volume routes.  They aggressively renegotiated labor contracts, using Chapter 11 courts to escape their ruinous contracts.  Most downsized their large aircraft fleets, replacing one third to one half with very low cost regional jets, while modernizing with more efficient widebodies where possible.  And they switched their business models from reliance on the disappearing, full fare business travel to the far larger discount travel market.  

With all that, the larger carriers must get the maximum utilization, i.e., load factor, out of each flight, just to break even.  Half full aircraft just won't cut it.  Thus, we see record high load factor percentages well into the 90s, where loadfactors in the 70s had been the historical norms, and all the frills and comfort has gone the way of the dodo.  And, yes, they count on the fact that frequent flyer miles are seldom redeemed.  

The larger carriers are only now beginning to make a profit again, barely.  Yet, already the unions are clamouring for higher wages.  Business travel might be picking up again, but it is unlikely to ever reach the level of the bygone, halcyon days.  Companies are too smart for that now and many larger corporations leverage their travel by negotiating for lower corporate fares.  Even the federal government gets into the act with its GSA lowest-bidder, City Pairs ticket program, a billion+ dollar a year program that is mandatory for most government agencies and is mostly flown at a loss to the carriers.  The GSA fares are so cheap now, even Southwest declined to bid on any of the thousands of routes this year.  It saves taxpayer dollars, but it helps the airlines not at all.

Deregulation opened the door for those low cost carriers, just as it was intended to do.  That opened the market to the great unwashed, most of whom will put up with a little discomfort to go see Grandma for Thanksgiving or her birthday.  The loss of traditional, full fare business travel was the last nail in the coffin for the old way of doing things.  Frequently flying bloggers might have a forum, but they don't have sufficient numbers to drive industry trends.

Sorry about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TAF wrote:</p>
<p>&#8220;As an aside, for those folks who think that &#8216;low cost&#8217; airlines like Southwest are the driver here, do a quick price comparison. SW etc. arenâ€™t cheaper than the traditional airlinesâ€¦I donâ€™t understand where the notion that they are comes from.&#8221;<br />
_____________________</p>
<p>The &#8220;notion&#8221; (which isn&#8217;t merely a notion) that low cost carriers are the economic benchmark comes from industry-wide experience.  </p>
<p>The ticket prices didn&#8217;t start out being even.  Low cost airlines, such as Southwest, used their advantages over time to get market penetration.  Those advantages included lower labor costs, smaller (thus cheaper to operate) aircraft, careful targeting of vulnerable routes often avoiding the major airports, and no-frills, point to point travel that avoided the cost of a hub and spoke network.  This all added up to a much smaller cost per available seat mile (CASM) which gave the LLCs a decisive competitive advantage.  Targeted use of cut rate, $49 type fares allowed them to gain market share almost anywhere they chose.  </p>
<p>The traditional mainline carriers, on the other hand, had high labor costs, larger &#8220;legacy&#8221; aircraft, and the expensive hub and spoke system, while relying heavily on non-discounted full business fares to offset any losses in coach.  These larger carriers simply had to adjust, especially when the bottom fell out of the business market after the dot.com collapse.  9/11 also had a terrible impact on large carriers who lost billions annually for a number of years, forcing them to reorganize themselves radically.  </p>
<p>The first thing they did was rid themselves of low density routes, which placed more emphasis on getting the most out of their high volume routes.  They aggressively renegotiated labor contracts, using Chapter 11 courts to escape their ruinous contracts.  Most downsized their large aircraft fleets, replacing one third to one half with very low cost regional jets, while modernizing with more efficient widebodies where possible.  And they switched their business models from reliance on the disappearing, full fare business travel to the far larger discount travel market.  </p>
<p>With all that, the larger carriers must get the maximum utilization, i.e., load factor, out of each flight, just to break even.  Half full aircraft just won&#8217;t cut it.  Thus, we see record high load factor percentages well into the 90s, where loadfactors in the 70s had been the historical norms, and all the frills and comfort has gone the way of the dodo.  And, yes, they count on the fact that frequent flyer miles are seldom redeemed.  </p>
<p>The larger carriers are only now beginning to make a profit again, barely.  Yet, already the unions are clamouring for higher wages.  Business travel might be picking up again, but it is unlikely to ever reach the level of the bygone, halcyon days.  Companies are too smart for that now and many larger corporations leverage their travel by negotiating for lower corporate fares.  Even the federal government gets into the act with its GSA lowest-bidder, City Pairs ticket program, a billion+ dollar a year program that is mandatory for most government agencies and is mostly flown at a loss to the carriers.  The GSA fares are so cheap now, even Southwest declined to bid on any of the thousands of routes this year.  It saves taxpayer dollars, but it helps the airlines not at all.</p>
<p>Deregulation opened the door for those low cost carriers, just as it was intended to do.  That opened the market to the great unwashed, most of whom will put up with a little discomfort to go see Grandma for Thanksgiving or her birthday.  The loss of traditional, full fare business travel was the last nail in the coffin for the old way of doing things.  Frequently flying bloggers might have a forum, but they don&#8217;t have sufficient numbers to drive industry trends.</p>
<p>Sorry about that.</p>
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