Comments on: Is Starbucks a spa or our third place? Is it Barack or Hillary? http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:54:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1 By: Alex http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-383683 Alex Sun, 05 Oct 2008 12:21:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-383683 Starbucks is interesting in that the niche it seems to fit. I think of Starbucks not as third place, but an extension of second place. In essence, you even say this yourself, when you suggest that they should sell business books. I see Starbucks as filling two needs, the first of which is consistency in the form of a home-away-from-home. In a strange town, or an airport, Starbucks is consistent, safe, familiar. The personality is the corporate Starbucks personality. It's soothing in its predictability. The second need that Starbucks fills is that of status. There is an upscale elegance to the Starbucks persona, like driving a Volvo or a Saab, wearing Cole-Haan shoes, and Coach purses. Inclusion can be purchased for the price of a cup of coffee. But the reality is, if you were going to buy a bag of whole-bean coffee to take as gift to someone who was really into coffee, you would not take Starbucks because its pedestrian. It would be like taking a six pack of Blue Moon to someone who was into microbrewed beer. The city in which I live is by no means "urban." I live in an area where there are 8 coffee shops within a two mile stretch that has minimal parking. One is a Starbucks, three are part of a local chain, and of the remaining four shops, one is a new immigrant start-up business. Each has a distinct personality and loyal following, and there are distinctions among the three locations of the local chain, despite product and service being consistent. Where you go for coffee and to hang out has meaning within the community, albeit subtle and unarticulated. Friends who have moved away asked to be sent cups and bagged coffee from the local chain. My daughter has a watercolor of one of the local chain locations hanging in the living room of her apartment across the country; it has meaning in defining who she is. Would someone would hang a painting of a Starbucks location in their living room? I wonder. Starbucks is interesting in that the niche it seems to fit. I think of Starbucks not as third place, but an extension of second place. In essence, you even say this yourself, when you suggest that they should sell business books.

I see Starbucks as filling two needs, the first of which is consistency in the form of a home-away-from-home. In a strange town, or an airport, Starbucks is consistent, safe, familiar. The personality is the corporate Starbucks personality. It’s soothing in its predictability. The second need that Starbucks fills is that of status. There is an upscale elegance to the Starbucks persona, like driving a Volvo or a Saab, wearing Cole-Haan shoes, and Coach purses. Inclusion can be purchased for the price of a cup of coffee. But the reality is, if you were going to buy a bag of whole-bean coffee to take as gift to someone who was really into coffee, you would not take Starbucks because its pedestrian. It would be like taking a six pack of Blue Moon to someone who was into microbrewed beer.

The city in which I live is by no means “urban.” I live in an area where there are 8 coffee shops within a two mile stretch that has minimal parking. One is a Starbucks, three are part of a local chain, and of the remaining four shops, one is a new immigrant start-up business. Each has a distinct personality and loyal following, and there are distinctions among the three locations of the local chain, despite product and service being consistent. Where you go for coffee and to hang out has meaning within the community, albeit subtle and unarticulated. Friends who have moved away asked to be sent cups and bagged coffee from the local chain.

My daughter has a watercolor of one of the local chain locations hanging in the living room of her apartment across the country; it has meaning in defining who she is. Would someone would hang a painting of a Starbucks location in their living room? I wonder.

]]> By: Ben http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-374003 Ben Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:02:30 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-374003 I can never get a seat at Starbucks. Not sure how that fits into the overarching metaphor, but it's true. I can never get a seat at Starbucks. Not sure how that fits into the overarching metaphor, but it’s true.

]]> By: Michael http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373883 Michael Sat, 26 Apr 2008 13:12:32 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373883 Hmm, Starbucks is a brand and a network.. and as McDonalds has found out it can localize (i.e selling beer in Germany which is culturally acceptable ) but to transfer localization to the local American context.. can Starbucks sell business books in business districts and academic books in university districts, creating a third space made up of real co-present (and like minded) people rather than the me-space (a place made up of private networks enabled by Starbucks through free WiFi).... the word is too fluid and the network too open...maybe too difficult for a network thats centrally managed to apply. Mike Hmm, Starbucks is a brand and a network.. and as McDonalds has found out it can localize (i.e selling beer in Germany which is culturally acceptable ) but to transfer localization to the local American context.. can Starbucks sell business books in business districts and academic books in university districts, creating a third space made up of real co-present (and like minded) people rather than the me-space (a place made up of private networks enabled by Starbucks through free WiFi)…. the word is too fluid and the network too open…maybe too difficult for a network thats centrally managed to apply.

Mike

]]> By: Anatole http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373850 Anatole Fri, 25 Apr 2008 17:38:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373850 With all due respect but I cannot help it… The Starbucks Hillary Clinton style would be a place where: Prices on coffee will stay the same low and affordable for 5 years, never mind the markets craziness or the store’s balances; But the amount of change you get from a twenty is different from day to day according to the latest mathematical whimsy of the owner; Will only serve black coffee if cornered and out of milk; The Old Fashioned Garbage Sink flavor is the day’ special; And finally, if you aren’t giving that $5 tip, we might not reopen tomorrow morning. With all due respect but I cannot help it…

The Starbucks Hillary Clinton style would be a place where:

Prices on coffee will stay the same low and affordable for 5 years, never mind the markets craziness or the store’s balances;

But the amount of change you get from a twenty is different from day to day according to the latest mathematical whimsy of the owner;

Will only serve black coffee if cornered and out of milk;

The Old Fashioned Garbage Sink flavor is the day’ special;

And finally, if you aren’t giving that $5 tip, we might not reopen tomorrow morning.

]]> By: John http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373843 John Fri, 25 Apr 2008 14:41:08 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373843 Give me a break. Starbucks sells coffee. I go there to get a very nice cup of Joe. These companies are all caught up in trying to be more than they are. If I want books, I go to a bookstore. If I want music, I go to iTunes. Regarding McDonald's, I go there to get a cheap burger. Marketing gurus and bean counters are trying to get companies to think beyond what they are so they can make a few extra bucks when they should instead focus on delivering their core product. Be great at one thing! Read The Myth of Excellence. Give me a break. Starbucks sells coffee. I go there to get a very nice cup of Joe. These companies are all caught up in trying to be more than they are. If I want books, I go to a bookstore. If I want music, I go to iTunes. Regarding McDonald’s, I go there to get a cheap burger. Marketing gurus and bean counters are trying to get companies to think beyond what they are so they can make a few extra bucks when they should instead focus on delivering their core product. Be great at one thing! Read The Myth of Excellence.

]]> By: chris bruzzo http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373839 chris bruzzo Fri, 25 Apr 2008 13:34:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/04/25/is-starbucks-a-spa-or-our-third-place-is-it-barack-or-hillary/#comment-373839 Localness is exactly where it's going Jeff! And a virtuous cycle of community that can go online-to-offline-to-online. Consider that Starbucks and AT&T are making each store a unique node in its network. Suddenly, user-generaed content can be hyper-local, relevant and have a place -- a physical place -- in the world. And it works precisely because of the elastic nature of the Starbucks Experience. There's room for ALL the candidates! Chris Localness is exactly where it’s going Jeff! And a virtuous cycle of community that can go online-to-offline-to-online. Consider that Starbucks and AT&T are making each store a unique node in its network. Suddenly, user-generaed content can be hyper-local, relevant and have a place — a physical place — in the world. And it works precisely because of the elastic nature of the Starbucks Experience. There’s room for ALL the candidates!

Chris

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