Comments on: The internet is the First Amendment http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 15:30:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The internet as a right http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-384535 BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The internet as a right Fri, 24 Oct 2008 12:03:04 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-384535 [...] how do you define openness? I’ve argued that the internet itself is the substantiation of the First Amendment; by its openness, we can judge a society’s freedom of speech. Gating against speech, content, [...] [...] how do you define openness? I’ve argued that the internet itself is the substantiation of the First Amendment; by its openness, we can judge a society’s freedom of speech. Gating against speech, content, [...]

]]> By: Daniel Edlen http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-379697 Daniel Edlen Mon, 28 Jul 2008 20:36:56 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-379697 "Help, help! I'm being oppressed!" I think it's odd that the framers felt the need to put in a 1st Amendment at all. Not being able to follow a path of history without its inclusion in the Constitution, we can't know what the US would be like today if they hadn't, but if, Jeff, you're right, and free speech is inevitable, why institutionalize and politicize it in the first place? I'm not at odds with the sentiment of the Constitution's Bill of Rights, I just think that it was created out of a collective paranoia developed by a comparison to Great Britain's Magna Carta. Politically, Madison pushed the amendments as a means for getting elected and single-handedly had to bully Congress into considering them. Nothing against him, just against reactionary and fear-based decisions. Again, if its true that free speech is inevitable, why put the protection thereof in a government's very framework. People on both sides of the strict vs. loose interpretation debate (i.e. everybody) will then assail the justification of the idea and the definition of all words used in its codification. And they have, haven't they? The argument shifted, when there really shouldn't be an argument in the first place, from the obviously well-intended idea to protect people from undue governmental interference and censorship to whether or not the words of the enacted amendment mean there should be a line or not and where that line is and oh my goodness Madison couldn't've meant to protect Eminem! Longwindedly, we don't know how our society, our culture, our country would've dealt with Mr. Mathers at this point in time if in that point in time the new US federal government hadn't made a concession to some states and federally codified some knee-jerk security concerns. I take issue with you, Jeff, that the amendment implies they felt it impossible to contain free speech. Indeed, the very fact they felt it necessary to codify it implies that they felt it likely the freedom would be impinged upon at some point. Not to get your goat, but can you imagine a world in which censorship would be warranted? What then? Peace. “Help, help! I’m being oppressed!”

I think it’s odd that the framers felt the need to put in a 1st Amendment at all. Not being able to follow a path of history without its inclusion in the Constitution, we can’t know what the US would be like today if they hadn’t, but if, Jeff, you’re right, and free speech is inevitable, why institutionalize and politicize it in the first place?

I’m not at odds with the sentiment of the Constitution’s Bill of Rights, I just think that it was created out of a collective paranoia developed by a comparison to Great Britain’s Magna Carta. Politically, Madison pushed the amendments as a means for getting elected and single-handedly had to bully Congress into considering them. Nothing against him, just against reactionary and fear-based decisions.

Again, if its true that free speech is inevitable, why put the protection thereof in a government’s very framework. People on both sides of the strict vs. loose interpretation debate (i.e. everybody) will then assail the justification of the idea and the definition of all words used in its codification.

And they have, haven’t they? The argument shifted, when there really shouldn’t be an argument in the first place, from the obviously well-intended idea to protect people from undue governmental interference and censorship to whether or not the words of the enacted amendment mean there should be a line or not and where that line is and oh my goodness Madison couldn’t've meant to protect Eminem!

Longwindedly, we don’t know how our society, our culture, our country would’ve dealt with Mr. Mathers at this point in time if in that point in time the new US federal government hadn’t made a concession to some states and federally codified some knee-jerk security concerns. I take issue with you, Jeff, that the amendment implies they felt it impossible to contain free speech. Indeed, the very fact they felt it necessary to codify it implies that they felt it likely the freedom would be impinged upon at some point.

Not to get your goat, but can you imagine a world in which censorship would be warranted? What then?

Peace.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis on what America should be exporting » Tempus Fugit http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-379285 Jeff Jarvis on what America should be exporting » Tempus Fugit Tue, 15 Jul 2008 19:28:29 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-379285 [...] Great quote by Jeff Jarvis on the need for global recognition of Free Speech as a human right: What America should be exporting — more than Coke or troops — is an understanding of living with the ethic of free speech we have inherited and the realization that the internet is the First Amendment brought to life. [...] [...] Great quote by Jeff Jarvis on the need for global recognition of Free Speech as a human right: What America should be exporting — more than Coke or troops — is an understanding of living with the ethic of free speech we have inherited and the realization that the internet is the First Amendment brought to life. [...]

]]> By: BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The sun sets on free speech http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-379256 BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The sun sets on free speech Tue, 15 Jul 2008 12:56:10 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-379256 [...] When I am in England and other countries speaking with journalists, I often take the opportunity to put in a plug for the First Amendment, begging them to that they should fight for one of their own — and for a Section 230, while they’re at it — because with global publishing we are all put at risk by bad libel laws and lesser protections of free speech thanks to libel tourism that exploits these laws to chill speech anywhere on earth (publish a book in the US and if one copy is sold in Britain, you can be prosecuted until its awful laws). What America should be exporting — more than Coke or troops — is an understanding of living with the ethic of free speech we have inherited and the realization that the internet is the First Amendment brought to life. [...] [...] When I am in England and other countries speaking with journalists, I often take the opportunity to put in a plug for the First Amendment, begging them to that they should fight for one of their own — and for a Section 230, while they’re at it — because with global publishing we are all put at risk by bad libel laws and lesser protections of free speech thanks to libel tourism that exploits these laws to chill speech anywhere on earth (publish a book in the US and if one copy is sold in Britain, you can be prosecuted until its awful laws). What America should be exporting — more than Coke or troops — is an understanding of living with the ethic of free speech we have inherited and the realization that the internet is the First Amendment brought to life. [...]

]]> By: BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » F— G-d http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-378062 BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » F— G-d Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:56:45 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-378062 [...] remind you that “bullshit” is political speech. And the internet is the First Amendment. George Carlin will die but his seven dirty words never [...] [...] remind you that “bullshit” is political speech. And the internet is the First Amendment. George Carlin will die but his seven dirty words never [...]

]]> By: Bob Wyman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377142 Bob Wyman Fri, 13 Jun 2008 01:22:53 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377142 From the AP: PARIS — France is joining at least five other countries where Internet service providers block access to child pornography and to content linked to terrorism and racial hatred, the French interior minister said Tuesday. ... A blacklist will be compiled based on input from Internet users who flag sites containing offensive material, Interior Minister Michel Alliot-Marie said. June 10, 2008 at 2:36 PM EDT See: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080610.wgtfrancekiddie0610/BNStory/Technology/ From the AP: PARIS — France is joining at least five other countries where Internet service providers block access to child pornography and to content linked to terrorism and racial hatred, the French interior minister said Tuesday. … A blacklist will be compiled based on input from Internet users who flag sites containing offensive material, Interior Minister Michel Alliot-Marie said.
June 10, 2008 at 2:36 PM EDT

See: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080610.wgtfrancekiddie0610/BNStory/Technology/

]]> By: Missouri Liberal » Cherishing the Constitution http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377140 Missouri Liberal » Cherishing the Constitution Fri, 13 Jun 2008 00:11:09 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377140 [...] it’s good to be reminded just how lucky we Americans are when it comes to our Constitutional freedoms, especially freedom of [...] [...] it’s good to be reminded just how lucky we Americans are when it comes to our Constitutional freedoms, especially freedom of [...]

]]> By: janice http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377139 janice Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:19:02 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377139 I meant Amen, Jeff! Not that I agree about the journalistic sheep. I don't know nothin about sheep. I meant Amen, Jeff!

Not that I agree about the journalistic sheep. I don’t know nothin about sheep.

]]> By: janice http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377127 janice Thu, 12 Jun 2008 17:09:09 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377127 Amen. Amen.

]]> By: Tim http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377124 Tim Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:51:08 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377124 By the way, the Canada case is getting very little attention inside Canada, even though it is a newsworthy story. Canadian journalists are often very individually talented (and regularly poached by Americans) but as a group, they are terrible, chastened SHEEP. By the way, the Canada case is getting very little attention inside Canada, even though it is a newsworthy story. Canadian journalists are often very individually talented (and regularly poached by Americans) but as a group, they are terrible, chastened SHEEP.

]]> By: Tim http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377123 Tim Thu, 12 Jun 2008 15:49:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377123 Doesn't the NYT article suggest that the world is questioning the USA's support for free speech? Please don't listen to the Times! The irony of that newspaper voicing doubts about free speech is too much to bear. The First Amendment is one of the great accomplishments of the USA. Doesn’t the NYT article suggest that the world is questioning the USA’s support for free speech?

Please don’t listen to the Times! The irony of that newspaper voicing doubts about free speech is too much to bear.

The First Amendment is one of the great accomplishments of the USA.

]]> By: Easycure http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377119 Easycure Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:38:38 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377119 This is the most important thing you have ever posted and I agree completely. Our country, the USA, is still the only country that constitutionally protects free speech. We should set a shining example by keeping the internet free from speech moderation. We should protect those whose speech we find offensive to us, even abhorrent. That includes most pornographers, hate mongers and politcal commentators. It is not possible for a government to fairly judge where a line of "acceptable speech" can be drawn. That's why the circus in Canada is so horrifying. The only way to protect our speech as individuals, is to protect all speech. This is the most important thing you have ever posted and I agree completely.

Our country, the USA, is still the only country that constitutionally protects free speech. We should set a shining example by keeping the internet free from speech moderation.

We should protect those whose speech we find offensive to us, even abhorrent. That includes most pornographers, hate mongers and politcal commentators.

It is not possible for a government to fairly judge where a line of “acceptable speech” can be drawn. That’s why the circus in Canada is so horrifying.

The only way to protect our speech as individuals, is to protect all speech.

]]> By: Harry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377118 Harry Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:30:36 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377118 Jeff, how do you reconcile today's column with Google's record in cooperating with the Chinese when it comes to internet censorship? I agree with you that Google has done many great things and is in many ways an admirable company, but their willingness------hell, eagerness!-----to help a repressive government control internet access on its 1+ billion citizens is a very black mark against Google. Jeff, how do you reconcile today’s column with Google’s record in cooperating with the Chinese when it comes to internet censorship? I agree with you that Google has done many great things and is in many ways an admirable company, but their willingness——hell, eagerness!—–to help a repressive government control internet access on its 1+ billion citizens is a very black mark against Google.

]]> By: Bob Wyman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/06/12/the-internet-is-the-first-amendment/#comment-377117 Bob Wyman Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:12:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3664#comment-377117 As in other recent posts, you underline the essentially political nature of much of today's engineering on the Internet. If one cares about free speech, you have a choice: You can become a politician or lawyer and fight for the law or its enforcement -- or you can build systems that embody and make inevitable the ideal of free speech. In "The Little Prince," a king declares that the sun rises and sets daily *because* he commanded it to do so. Of course, his power is confirmed by simple observation. One day, we'll be able to say: "There is free speech because the constitution commands it to be so." But, the reality may be that we have free speech because technology has made it to difficult to restrict speech... Engineers will have finished the job that the politicians began. On the Internet, engineering is politics. bob wyman As in other recent posts, you underline the essentially political nature of much of today’s engineering on the Internet. If one cares about free speech, you have a choice: You can become a politician or lawyer and fight for the law or its enforcement — or you can build systems that embody and make inevitable the ideal of free speech.

In “The Little Prince,” a king declares that the sun rises and sets daily *because* he commanded it to do so. Of course, his power is confirmed by simple observation. One day, we’ll be able to say: “There is free speech because the constitution commands it to be so.” But, the reality may be that we have free speech because technology has made it to difficult to restrict speech… Engineers will have finished the job that the politicians began.

On the Internet, engineering is politics.

bob wyman

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