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	<title>Comments on: The sun sets on free speech</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/</link>
	<description>by Jeff Jarvis</description>
	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:07:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Jeff Jarvis on what America should be exporting &#171; Tempus Fugit</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-385869</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff Jarvis on what America should be exporting &#171; Tempus Fugit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 23:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-385869</guid>
		<description>[...] Jeff Jarvis [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Jeff Jarvis [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rinky Stingpiece</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-382455</link>
		<dc:creator>Rinky Stingpiece</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 20:12:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-382455</guid>
		<description>What about "Seditious libel"?

I would have thought that it's perfectly legal to publish seditious material against the British state on an American hosted site, under the protection of the 1st Amendment.

It's not just Britain, but other EU countries like Germany that seem to think it's legitimate, liberal, and morally "alright" to claim legal jurisdiction over the whole world!

Has everyone forgotten John Stuart Mill and Voltaire? Has everyone forgotten why we fought against Hitler in WW2? Has everyone forgotten what free speech actually means?!

I'm furious... the cheek of calling it free speech, when it's just "licenced speech"; and the new Orwellian laws created by Blair's IngSoc that, like wolves in sheep's clothing, attempt to smuggle appalling censorship under the guise of anti-discrimination and "serious organised crime" of all things.

I just want to phucking scream! I certainly want to tell them to phuck right off without fear of losing my career, my liberty, or my family.
This isn't "liberal democracy" - it's coercion.

What we need is an organised campaign for a British First Amendment... I'm sure plenty of Americans would join us in this fight and support us in kicking down these evil and onerous laws.

Any takers?
I'm serious; I want to live in a free country; how about you?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about &#8220;Seditious libel&#8221;?</p>
<p>I would have thought that it&#8217;s perfectly legal to publish seditious material against the British state on an American hosted site, under the protection of the 1st Amendment.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just Britain, but other EU countries like Germany that seem to think it&#8217;s legitimate, liberal, and morally &#8220;alright&#8221; to claim legal jurisdiction over the whole world!</p>
<p>Has everyone forgotten John Stuart Mill and Voltaire? Has everyone forgotten why we fought against Hitler in WW2? Has everyone forgotten what free speech actually means?!</p>
<p>I&#8217;m furious&#8230; the cheek of calling it free speech, when it&#8217;s just &#8220;licenced speech&#8221;; and the new Orwellian laws created by Blair&#8217;s IngSoc that, like wolves in sheep&#8217;s clothing, attempt to smuggle appalling censorship under the guise of anti-discrimination and &#8220;serious organised crime&#8221; of all things.</p>
<p>I just want to phucking scream! I certainly want to tell them to phuck right off without fear of losing my career, my liberty, or my family.<br />
This isn&#8217;t &#8220;liberal democracy&#8221; - it&#8217;s coercion.</p>
<p>What we need is an organised campaign for a British First Amendment&#8230; I&#8217;m sure plenty of Americans would join us in this fight and support us in kicking down these evil and onerous laws.</p>
<p>Any takers?<br />
I&#8217;m serious; I want to live in a free country; how about you?!</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Bradshaw</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379332</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Bradshaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 08:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379332</guid>
		<description>Monbiot's article is spot on. I'm involved in setting up an open source investigative journalism project and I can see that the libel issue is going to be by far the biggest obstacle to opening up these processes. Wikileaks have a good idea, but it's difficult to create community with anonymity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Monbiot&#8217;s article is spot on. I&#8217;m involved in setting up an open source investigative journalism project and I can see that the libel issue is going to be by far the biggest obstacle to opening up these processes. Wikileaks have a good idea, but it&#8217;s difficult to create community with anonymity.</p>
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		<title>By: Links for 2008-07-16 - tonyscott.org.uk</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379329</link>
		<dc:creator>Links for 2008-07-16 - tonyscott.org.uk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 07:18:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379329</guid>
		<description>[...] The sun sets on free speech [Jeff Jarvis] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The sun sets on free speech [Jeff Jarvis] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Seth Finkelstein</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379312</link>
		<dc:creator>Seth Finkelstein</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 03:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379312</guid>
		<description>Regarding "the notion that libel laws themselves are outmoded when the internet gives everyone the means of response", I'll repeat what I said in that earlier discussion:

The idea is both mathematically false and very, very, cruel. There are vast, enormous, disparities of audience between sites, and an ordinary blogger simply cannot hope to have the access to oppose being libeled by an A-lister. Now, there is a set of stock replies, that maybe the libel doesn't hurt, maybe the audience is not important. etc. etc.

But if one does care about being libeled - if the libel &lt;em&gt;hurts&lt;/em&gt;, if the audience &lt;em&gt;does matter&lt;/em&gt; - then the net is simply one more press ecology, with both sharks and minnows. Sure, one can sometimes get the help of powerful allies, or enemies-of-my-enemy. But that's not any sort of deep change at all, just the same old game.

I was "there" when net-changes-libel evangelism was put forward, more than &lt;em&gt;a decade ago&lt;/em&gt;. It's not new. And it's not true.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding &#8220;the notion that libel laws themselves are outmoded when the internet gives everyone the means of response&#8221;, I&#8217;ll repeat what I said in that earlier discussion:</p>
<p>The idea is both mathematically false and very, very, cruel. There are vast, enormous, disparities of audience between sites, and an ordinary blogger simply cannot hope to have the access to oppose being libeled by an A-lister. Now, there is a set of stock replies, that maybe the libel doesn&#8217;t hurt, maybe the audience is not important. etc. etc.</p>
<p>But if one does care about being libeled - if the libel <em>hurts</em>, if the audience <em>does matter</em> - then the net is simply one more press ecology, with both sharks and minnows. Sure, one can sometimes get the help of powerful allies, or enemies-of-my-enemy. But that&#8217;s not any sort of deep change at all, just the same old game.</p>
<p>I was &#8220;there&#8221; when net-changes-libel evangelism was put forward, more than <em>a decade ago</em>. It&#8217;s not new. And it&#8217;s not true.</p>
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		<title>By: o-shift</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379309</link>
		<dc:creator>o-shift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 02:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379309</guid>
		<description>Let's make a deal with the UK. The USA agrees to play a real role in reducing global warming, and in exchange the UK rewrites its libel laws.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s make a deal with the UK. The USA agrees to play a real role in reducing global warming, and in exchange the UK rewrites its libel laws.</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; links for 2008-07-15&#160;by&#160;Kevin Bondelli&#8217;s Youth Vote Blog</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379300</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; links for 2008-07-15&#160;by&#160;Kevin Bondelli&#8217;s Youth Vote Blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 23:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379300</guid>
		<description>[...] BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The sun sets on free speech [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] BuzzMachine » Blog Archive » The sun sets on free speech [...]</p>
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		<title>By: HectorVox</title>
		<link>http://www.buzzmachine.com/2008/07/15/the-sun-sets-on-free-speech/#comment-379297</link>
		<dc:creator>HectorVox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jul 2008 22:29:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3730#comment-379297</guid>
		<description>The UK's libel laws are dubious, and certainly the way that libel tourism has been exploited is unpleasant (look to Private Eye for an extensive account).

They are, however, set in a context of an intrusive media environment, and a system where tabloid newspapers are able to elicit an alarming amount of control over their targets. Compare with France, where, through whatever means, prominent figures do have private lives. 

Whatever the case, I'm not sure if a constitution is the answer - it always seems to me that it ensures that political issues are settled in the courts, making the division between judiciary and politics less clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The UK&#8217;s libel laws are dubious, and certainly the way that libel tourism has been exploited is unpleasant (look to Private Eye for an extensive account).</p>
<p>They are, however, set in a context of an intrusive media environment, and a system where tabloid newspapers are able to elicit an alarming amount of control over their targets. Compare with France, where, through whatever means, prominent figures do have private lives. </p>
<p>Whatever the case, I&#8217;m not sure if a constitution is the answer - it always seems to me that it ensures that political issues are settled in the courts, making the division between judiciary and politics less clear.</p>
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