Comments on: Post-paper and after the tears http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:40:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Desvaríos sobre el fin del NYT en papel | Blogs UC http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-397801 Desvaríos sobre el fin del NYT en papel | Blogs UC Wed, 08 Jul 2009 22:34:24 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-397801 [...] de volumen en las últimas semanas. Un artículo que emocionó hasta los hurras a los bloggeros (otro link a otro bloggero emocionado) fue el texto del colaborador del The Atlantic, Michael [...] [...] de volumen en las últimas semanas. Un artículo que emocionó hasta los hurras a los bloggeros (otro link a otro bloggero emocionado) fue el texto del colaborador del The Atlantic, Michael [...]

]]> By: Ruth Stark http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-390652 Ruth Stark Mon, 16 Feb 2009 19:06:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-390652 I disagree. Newspapers are not the "next big thing". Everything is going online. The future of paper news sources is bleak. I disagree. Newspapers are not the “next big thing”. Everything is going online. The future of paper news sources is bleak.

]]> By: Could Crowdsourcing Help Save the New York Times? | Peter Bihr on Social Media, Web 2.0 and Digital Life http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-390580 Could Crowdsourcing Help Save the New York Times? | Peter Bihr on Social Media, Web 2.0 and Digital Life Sat, 14 Feb 2009 17:51:17 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-390580 [...] opinions on consequences and options differ widely. Check out The Atlantic’s judgement and Jeff Jarvis’ comments, for example.) To get an idea of how bad the newspaper is hit, here’s the figures quoted in [...] [...] opinions on consequences and options differ widely. Check out The Atlantic’s judgement and Jeff Jarvis’ comments, for example.) To get an idea of how bad the newspaper is hit, here’s the figures quoted in [...]

]]> By: rossi http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389201 rossi Sat, 10 Jan 2009 18:45:54 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389201 oh honey i'm so old fashioned i'm still mourning the death of the rotary phone i must say there is just nothing like sitting in an easy chair and reading the sunday new york times on the web just not the same never will be but alas some great magical things do just fade away such is life oh honey
i’m so old fashioned
i’m still mourning the death of the rotary phone

i must say there is just nothing like sitting in an easy chair and reading
the sunday new york times
on the web
just not the same
never will be
but alas
some great magical things
do just fade away

such is life

]]> By: Cwrite http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389161 Cwrite Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:02:05 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389161 I have no qualms with you writing a book. But I don't see how it can be considered a "learning" experience for the students. With that said, I do know that students appreciate the real life experiences that professors bring to the classroom. What I am concerned about is balance. These are just the thoughts of an overburdened and underpaid CUNY employee who spends way too much time filling in the gaps to the benefit of her relatively well-paid full-time colleagues. I have no qualms with you writing a book. But I don’t see how it can be considered a “learning” experience for the students. With that said, I do know that students appreciate the real life experiences that professors bring to the classroom. What I am concerned about is balance.

These are just the thoughts of an overburdened and underpaid CUNY employee who spends way too much time filling in the gaps to the benefit of her relatively well-paid full-time colleagues.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389148 Jeff Jarvis Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:22:00 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389148 Well, that seems rather a hostile expression. But taking your comment instead at face value, what you term promotion I see as learning. Is writing a book promotion or - as you should see it in the academy - is it learning? Meeting with people in the industry and talking about their problems and solutions, I learn a great deal that I bring into the classroom. Knowing these people, I get to bring them into the classroom and events at the school. AndI've introduced students to them for jobs. How's that? Well, that seems rather a hostile expression. But taking your comment instead at face value, what you term promotion I see as learning. Is writing a book promotion or – as you should see it in the academy – is it learning? Meeting with people in the industry and talking about their problems and solutions, I learn a great deal that I bring into the classroom. Knowing these people, I get to bring them into the classroom and events at the school. AndI’ve introduced students to them for jobs. How’s that?

]]> By: Cwrite http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389146 Cwrite Fri, 09 Jan 2009 17:55:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389146 This is off-topic. With all of your self-promotion activities, what time do you have to do your job -- teaching graduate students journalism? I'd love to know where some of your students are working and/or what opportunities they have been afforded as a result of your teaching? Full Disclosure: I am a CUNY adjunct instructor in communication studies. This is off-topic. With all of your self-promotion activities, what time do you have to do your job — teaching graduate students journalism? I’d love to know where some of your students are working and/or what opportunities they have been afforded as a result of your teaching?

Full Disclosure: I am a CUNY adjunct instructor in communication studies.

]]> By: Valley PR Blog » Blog Archive » Valley PR Blog’s Weekend Reading for 1-9-09 http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389130 Valley PR Blog » Blog Archive » Valley PR Blog’s Weekend Reading for 1-9-09 Fri, 09 Jan 2009 13:16:38 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389130 [...] End Times - The Atlantic’s Michael Hirschorn envisions the post-death spiral newspaper (via Buzz Machine/Jeff Jarvis) [...] [...] End Times – The Atlantic’s Michael Hirschorn envisions the post-death spiral newspaper (via Buzz Machine/Jeff Jarvis) [...]

]]> By: Evan Rudowski http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389068 Evan Rudowski Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:45:36 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389068 Hello Michael, Without doubt, you're right -- the weekly print edition pays the freight. However, they have now eliminated six days worth of newsprint and distribution costs, while using the website to remain relevant throughout the week. And the debates on the website are vital to the community; there are some big issues here around historic preservation, building a new stadium for the rugby team, new traffic and transit plans and so on. With the website the newspaper facilitates a community dialogue that was not previously possible in print only. This makes the Chronicle as an institution more relevant. This must have a positive (if not easily measurable) impact on revenues too. Best wishes, Evan Rudowski Hello Michael,

Without doubt, you’re right — the weekly print edition pays the freight. However, they have now eliminated six days worth of newsprint and distribution costs, while using the website to remain relevant throughout the week. And the debates on the website are vital to the community; there are some big issues here around historic preservation, building a new stadium for the rugby team, new traffic and transit plans and so on. With the website the newspaper facilitates a community dialogue that was not previously possible in print only. This makes the Chronicle as an institution more relevant. This must have a positive (if not easily measurable) impact on revenues too.

Best wishes,
Evan Rudowski

]]> By: New York Times: Farewell sweet print? « Virtualjournalist http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389066 New York Times: Farewell sweet print? « Virtualjournalist Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:33:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389066 [...] that view is one proposed by Jeff Jarvis of BuzzMachine, who is far more receptive to Hirschorn’s vision: I also love that he presents the model for [...] [...] that view is one proposed by Jeff Jarvis of BuzzMachine, who is far more receptive to Hirschorn’s vision: I also love that he presents the model for [...]

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389064 Michael Josefowicz Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:57:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389064 @ Evan, You say "And the best web comments get published in the newspaper every week. The importance of the Chronicle to the life of this city has probably only grown since their shift to weekly, and in large part thanks to their effective use of the web." That makes very good sense to me. My question is could the web have done it without the weekly print paper? Is the primary revenue from the Paper or the Web? I'm betting the web creates the community and the news. But the Paper brings the news to everyone and the money into the organization. @ Evan,
You say “And the best web comments get published in the newspaper every week. The importance of the Chronicle to the life of this city has probably only grown since their shift to weekly, and in large part thanks to their effective use of the web.”

That makes very good sense to me. My question is could the web have done it without the weekly print paper? Is the primary revenue from the Paper or the Web? I’m betting the web creates the community and the news. But the Paper brings the news to everyone and the money into the organization.

]]> By: Eric Garland http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389061 Eric Garland Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:54:52 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389061 I won't mourn the loss of slow, status quo, advertising-driven old media, but I am increasingly nervous about losing in-depth reporting. There is still something to be said for human beings telling good stories with professional rigor. So long as we can pay individuals to do reporting, the internet will be even better than newspapers. But if we trade in depth for pay-per-click sensationalism, we will have done society a disservice. I won’t mourn the loss of slow, status quo, advertising-driven old media, but I am increasingly nervous about losing in-depth reporting. There is still something to be said for human beings telling good stories with professional rigor. So long as we can pay individuals to do reporting, the internet will be even better than newspapers. But if we trade in depth for pay-per-click sensationalism, we will have done society a disservice.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389059 Andy Freeman Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:29:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389059 > What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting. Do we have any examples of someone trying? Other than the WSJ, that is. > What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting.

Do we have any examples of someone trying?

Other than the WSJ, that is.

]]> By: Evan Rudowski http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389042 Evan Rudowski Thu, 08 Jan 2009 13:26:28 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389042 @James Blackman: I think local newspapers have a great advantage on the web. Their information is unique and not commoditized, and they probably have few competitors in the information gathering arena in their local markets. They have relationships with the local merchants who are relevant to the daily lives of their local readers. However, for these reasons they are also likely to be able to survive longer in print, at least in markets where the underlying economic conditions are healthy. Here in Bath, England, we have The Bath Chronicle which has been continuously published since the 18th Century. About a year ago it moved from daily publication (overkill anyway in this city of about 70,000 people) to weekly. The weekly edition is now more lively than ever and thick with advertising. The newspaper has recently won multiple awards as one of the best UK weekly newspapers. The Chronicle's website, www.thisisbath.co.uk, has easily replaced the daily print edition and is probably the center of lively debate about community issues. And the best web comments get published in the newspaper every week. The importance of the Chronicle to the life of this city has probably only grown since their shift to weekly, and in large part thanks to their effective use of the web. Kind regards, Evan Rudowski @James Blackman:

I think local newspapers have a great advantage on the web. Their information is unique and not commoditized, and they probably have few competitors in the information gathering arena in their local markets. They have relationships with the local merchants who are relevant to the daily lives of their local readers. However, for these reasons they are also likely to be able to survive longer in print, at least in markets where the underlying economic conditions are healthy.

Here in Bath, England, we have The Bath Chronicle which has been continuously published since the 18th Century. About a year ago it moved from daily publication (overkill anyway in this city of about 70,000 people) to weekly. The weekly edition is now more lively than ever and thick with advertising. The newspaper has recently won multiple awards as one of the best UK weekly newspapers.

The Chronicle’s website, http://www.thisisbath.co.uk, has easily replaced the daily print edition and is probably the center of lively debate about community issues. And the best web comments get published in the newspaper every week. The importance of the Chronicle to the life of this city has probably only grown since their shift to weekly, and in large part thanks to their effective use of the web.

Kind regards,
Evan Rudowski

]]> By: James Blackman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389037 James Blackman Thu, 08 Jan 2009 10:46:36 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389037 "If they try to support free content by advertising on the internet, i think they are going to lose" So do I. Especially local papers. I can't imagine a local newspaper online would get many hits. How would a local newspaper survive with only a web presence? “If they try to support free content by advertising on the internet, i think they are going to lose”

So do I. Especially local papers. I can’t imagine a local newspaper online would get many hits.

How would a local newspaper survive with only a web presence?

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389022 Michael Josefowicz Thu, 08 Jan 2009 04:19:04 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389022 At scale you can make money. But a newspaper is not in the same business as Google. Google is very specifically not in the content business. They are in the infrastructure business. In addition to everything else, they have the biggest fastest computers on the planet. When newspapers were in the physical infrastructure business they made lots of money. If they try to support free content by advertising on the internet, I think they are going to lose. The price of advertising is just too low. At scale you can make money. But a newspaper is not in the same business as Google.

Google is very specifically not in the content business. They are in the infrastructure business. In addition to everything else, they have the biggest fastest computers on the planet.

When newspapers were in the physical infrastructure business they made lots of money. If they try to support free content by advertising on the internet, I think they are going to lose. The price of advertising is just too low.

]]> By: Harry http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389016 Harry Thu, 08 Jan 2009 01:01:06 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389016 "No way that web ads are anything more than a nice extra to pay for the electricity, IMHO." Uh, gee, exactly where do Google's revenues come from?? “No way that web ads are anything more than a nice extra to pay for the electricity, IMHO.”

Uh, gee, exactly where do Google’s revenues come from??

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389013 Jeff Jarvis Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:22:50 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389013 Further on the point: Warren Jeffs is a child molester. So there's no humor in taking the name. It is sick. So on that basis, I am killing all comments from someone who decides to take on the identity of a child molester. Enough. Further on the point:
Warren Jeffs is a child molester. So there’s no humor in taking the name. It is sick. So on that basis, I am killing all comments from someone who decides to take on the identity of a child molester. Enough.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389012 Jeff Jarvis Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:18:51 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389012 People, His name isn't Warren. It's a stupid joke. And I've tired of him. If he doesn't come in with a real name, I think I will start spamming his comments just because it's insulting. People,
His name isn’t Warren. It’s a stupid joke. And I’ve tired of him. If he doesn’t come in with a real name, I think I will start spamming his comments just because it’s insulting.

]]> By: barbara raab http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389010 barbara raab Thu, 08 Jan 2009 00:04:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389010 No disagreements, but this does press my "uh oh, it's going to be all about the star-making machinery" fear button... No disagreements, but this does press my “uh oh, it’s going to be all about the star-making machinery” fear button…

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389009 Michael Josefowicz Wed, 07 Jan 2009 23:14:50 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389009 @ Michael "What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting." National investigative reporting is being taken over by non profits with web sites. Opensecrets.org and many other issue focused outfits run by real researchers and full time experts. Another source, much neglected by the media is congressional hearings. It's the only place people go to jail if they lie. Local beat reporting? My take is very low overhead print publications that sell local advertising that is beneath the radar of the traditional Newspaper. Mom and pop, small business, service organizations. Beat blogging seems to be a really good model so far. They make their contacts in the same environments in which they write their stories. @ Michael
“What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting.”

National investigative reporting is being taken over by non profits with web sites. Opensecrets.org and many other issue focused outfits run by real researchers and full time experts. Another source, much neglected by the media is congressional hearings. It’s the only place people go to jail if they lie.

Local beat reporting? My take is very low overhead print publications that sell local advertising that is beneath the radar of the traditional Newspaper. Mom and pop, small business, service organizations. Beat blogging seems to be a really good model so far. They make their contacts in the same environments in which they write their stories.

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389008 Michael Josefowicz Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:49:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389008 Besides, I think the only way you make money on the web is buying selling stuff. Amazon, B&N, band sites that sell t shirts. New Yorker sells CD's. No way that web ads are anything more than a nice extra to pay for the electricity, IMHO. Besides, I think the only way you make money on the web is buying selling stuff.
Amazon, B&N, band sites that sell t shirts. New Yorker sells CD’s.

No way that web ads are anything more than a nice extra to pay for the electricity, IMHO.

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-389007 Michael Josefowicz Wed, 07 Jan 2009 22:45:35 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-389007 Warren- HuffPo has much lower overhead. Right you are about the print version of Politco. It's a read for free pay for print kinda world. For the NYT their inventory is all the content since 189x whatever... I think they could repackage that as textbooks/newspapers and sell it to every K-12 in the US. The Reuters thing is a long tail. No extra overhead or investment> My bet is Reuters is putting in money to get a real chance to go at the AP. Warren-
HuffPo has much lower overhead. Right you are about the print version of Politco. It’s a read for free pay for print kinda world. For the NYT their inventory is all the content since 189x whatever… I think they could repackage that as textbooks/newspapers and sell it to every K-12 in the US.

The Reuters thing is a long tail. No extra overhead or investment> My bet is Reuters is putting in money to get a real chance to go at the AP.

]]> By: Michael Fraase http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-388994 Michael Fraase Wed, 07 Jan 2009 19:07:44 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-388994 Oh good lord. Anything for the <em>Times</em> but a "bigger, better, and less partisan" <em>Huffington Post</em>. As has already been stated, the <em>Huffington Post</em>'s business model is basically cheap thievery. Aside from that, I think Hirschorn is pretty much dead on. What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting. Oh good lord. Anything for the Times but a “bigger, better, and less partisan” Huffington Post. As has already been stated, the Huffington Post’s business model is basically cheap thievery. Aside from that, I think Hirschorn is pretty much dead on.

What remains is to find a sustainable business model for enterprise, investigative, and beat reporting.

]]> By: Michael Josefowicz http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/07/post-paper-and-after-the-tears/#comment-388993 Michael Josefowicz Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:45:33 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=3983#comment-388993 Warren- You got that right, but...suppose the NYT networked with HufPo. The way politico did with Reuters. NYT can print and deliver and create stuff they can sell. And journos can do journo. Warren-
You got that right, but…suppose the NYT networked with HufPo. The way politico did with Reuters. NYT can print and deliver and create stuff they can sell. And journos can do journo.

]]>