Comments on: Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:40:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: 24AheadDotCom http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389757 24AheadDotCom Sat, 24 Jan 2009 19:00:18 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389757 You keep racking your brain over there. Meanwhile, those who clicked the link in my comment will note the link in that post linking to these five questions I posted to change.gov, any of which any MSM hack is too corrupt to ask: http://24ahead.com/more-immigration-questions-barack-obama-changegov-open-quest I've posted many questions like that, and just some of them are linked from here: http://24ahead.com/s/question-authority You keep racking your brain over there.

Meanwhile, those who clicked the link in my comment will note the link in that post linking to these five questions I posted to change.gov, any of which any MSM hack is too corrupt to ask:

http://24ahead.com/more-immigration-questions-barack-obama-changegov-open-quest

I’ve posted many questions like that, and just some of them are linked from here:

http://24ahead.com/s/question-authority

]]> By: Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet « New Media Team http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389734 Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet « New Media Team Fri, 23 Jan 2009 18:04:15 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389734 [...] popular web media on all government agencies? Much is being speculated and written, including this discussion. How might we … the new media team … help or benefit from a saran wrap (transparency) [...] [...] popular web media on all government agencies? Much is being speculated and written, including this discussion. How might we … the new media team … help or benefit from a saran wrap (transparency) [...]

]]> By: Tex Lovera http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389732 Tex Lovera Fri, 23 Jan 2009 17:50:41 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389732 Government is run by politicians. The power of politicians emanates from restricting, controlling, and manipulating information. Example 1? The current bailout. There will be no "openness" in government until there are no politicians, regardless of the technology used to "distribute" the information that they are willing to release. Government is run by politicians. The power of politicians emanates from restricting, controlling, and manipulating information. Example 1? The current bailout.

There will be no “openness” in government until there are no politicians, regardless of the technology used to “distribute” the information that they are willing to release.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389726 Jeff Jarvis Fri, 23 Jan 2009 16:44:57 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389726 Sigh. I'm not really suggesting we abolish it. I'm making a point. Transparency should be the default in government. I use this rhetorical approach to make the point. Clear? Sigh. I’m not really suggesting we abolish it. I’m making a point. Transparency should be the default in government. I use this rhetorical approach to make the point. Clear?

]]> By: DominusOminous http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389722 DominusOminous Fri, 23 Jan 2009 13:53:55 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389722 Perhaps you thought it should be obvious, but it wasn't. It totally undermines your entire premise. The FOIA is a high-water mark of the notion of open government which has been the most important tool of accountability for decades. Any individual with even the most passing of interest in your proposition knows this and will discount your point as a result. I'm not here to shoot down your desires for open and accountable government, for I share them as well and have been an activist to that end. The web, however, is far too ephemeral for the function of government beyond a temporal lens for the day. Just because we now have a 'net friendly administration does not mean that some future administration will be far less so and will not use its power to subvert the transparency we treasure, as we have so recently witnessed. "What Yahoo account did you want to use today, Sarah?" Nice try, but no thanks. As an added feature to a 200 year old experiment? Sure. As a central change in the access of the people to its actions? Never. Perhaps you thought it should be obvious, but it wasn’t. It totally undermines your entire premise. The FOIA is a high-water mark of the notion of open government which has been the most important tool of accountability for decades. Any individual with even the most passing of interest in your proposition knows this and will discount your point as a result.

I’m not here to shoot down your desires for open and accountable government, for I share them as well and have been an activist to that end. The web, however, is far too ephemeral for the function of government beyond a temporal lens for the day. Just because we now have a ‘net friendly administration does not mean that some future administration will be far less so and will not use its power to subvert the transparency we treasure, as we have so recently witnessed. “What Yahoo account did you want to use today, Sarah?”

Nice try, but no thanks. As an added feature to a 200 year old experiment? Sure. As a central change in the access of the people to its actions? Never.

]]> By: Gabriel http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389711 Gabriel Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:44:40 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389711 I checked the Spanish version and is almost empty. It only has the president's, vp's and their wifes bios. No habla español, presidente Obama? I checked the Spanish version and is almost empty. It only has the president’s, vp’s and their wifes bios. No habla español, presidente Obama?

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389710 Jeff Jarvis Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:02:07 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389710 Don't take everything literally. It is said to make a point. I thought that should be obvious. Don’t take everything literally. It is said to make a point. I thought that should be obvious.

]]> By: Michael J http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389702 Michael J Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:03:54 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389702 @Jeff, Sorry, I don't buy " we should abolish the Freedom of Information Act and instead make transparency the default for government’s business," unless you are talking about a process not a do it now policy. People are still people. Without good laws, transparency is only a necessary, but not sufficient condition to getting it right. @Jeff,
Sorry, I don’t buy ” we should abolish the Freedom of Information Act and instead make transparency the default for government’s business,” unless you are talking about a process not a do it now policy.

People are still people. Without good laws, transparency is only a necessary, but not sufficient condition to getting it right.

]]> By: Michael J http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389701 Michael J Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:00:26 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389701 Just curious if you would like to share some of those "too crooked to ask" questions. I keep racking my brain, but can't think of any. Could use a little help here. Just curious if you would like to share some of those “too crooked to ask” questions. I keep racking my brain, but can’t think of any. Could use a little help here.

]]> By: Michael J http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389700 Michael J Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:58:33 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389700 For my money, I would rather have Obama figuring out what to do next, than twittering. It's that time to put away childish things, thing. For my money, I would rather have Obama figuring out what to do next, than twittering.
It’s that time to put away childish things, thing.

]]> By: Michael J http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389699 Michael J Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:57:22 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389699 @v Mark J, It's not about cool or hip. It's about smart and experienced. @v Mark J,
It’s not about cool or hip. It’s about smart and experienced.

]]> By: Martin Wright.tv » Blog Archive » Campaign by the Internet, Govern by the Internet http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389698 Martin Wright.tv » Blog Archive » Campaign by the Internet, Govern by the Internet Thu, 22 Jan 2009 17:58:07 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389698 [...] Jarvis at BuzzMachine in Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet argues that we should abolish the Freedom of Information Act and instead make transparency the [...] [...] Jarvis at BuzzMachine in Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet argues that we should abolish the Freedom of Information Act and instead make transparency the [...]

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389694 Jeff Jarvis Thu, 22 Jan 2009 16:04:09 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389694 Dave, We are agreeing. You're saying it's not enough. I'm saying the ambition needs to be much more - and more than discussion on their site. It has to be an ethic. If we disagree it all, it's that the first day is perhaps not enough time to judge the execution of their promise. Though then again, I used to review TV shows after the pilot. Dave,
We are agreeing. You’re saying it’s not enough. I’m saying the ambition needs to be much more – and more than discussion on their site. It has to be an ethic. If we disagree it all, it’s that the first day is perhaps not enough time to judge the execution of their promise. Though then again, I used to review TV shows after the pilot.

]]> By: Ethic of Listening « Wir sprechen Online. http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389687 Ethic of Listening « Wir sprechen Online. Thu, 22 Jan 2009 06:59:40 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389687 [...] Jarvis: The President should instill an ethic of listening in the agencies of his administration; http://tr.im/bnge   [...] [...] Jarvis: The President should instill an ethic of listening in the agencies of his administration; http://tr.im/bnge   [...]

]]> By: dominic http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389685 dominic Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:58:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389685 It is still possible to access the change.force.com site up. Is this what you're referring to (Starbucks and Dell like?): http://change.force.com/ideas/ideaList.apexp?c=09a800000004fo6&lsi=2 However, I don't think this is going to work. Look at the top issue : marijuana legalisation !. Hard to believe this is #issue in he US nowadays. I think this system has (had_ the same problem as Ideastorm, it's the victim of lobby. Maybe the reason why they are shutting is down. When brand (or political organization) really want to listen, they have to build strategy for it and go where they target hang up. If they try to own the discussions, then they open the door for the most vocal, or better organized communities. I just published a short study on Ideastorm: http://blog.ecairn.com/2009/01/22/dell-ideastorm-and-obama/ It is still possible to access the change.force.com site up. Is this what you’re referring to (Starbucks and Dell like?): http://change.force.com/ideas/ideaList.apexp?c=09a800000004fo6&lsi=2

However, I don’t think this is going to work. Look at the top issue : marijuana legalisation !. Hard to believe this is #issue in he US nowadays.

I think this system has (had_ the same problem as Ideastorm, it’s the victim of lobby. Maybe the reason why they are shutting is down.

When brand (or political organization) really want to listen, they have to build strategy for it and go where they target hang up. If they try to own the discussions, then they open the door for the most vocal, or better organized communities.

I just published a short study on Ideastorm: http://blog.ecairn.com/2009/01/22/dell-ideastorm-and-obama/

]]> By: 24AheadDotCom http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389684 24AheadDotCom Thu, 22 Jan 2009 04:35:52 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389684 BHO has a blog for the same reason that MegaLoMart, Inc. has a blog: it helps them have a hip, cool with-it, down-with-it image. What was at the WH before was a news page... with items grouped by the day... in descending order. Kinda like something else. Except, each event had one or more links to video, a transcript, associated press releases, etc. etc. It was like a grown-up blog. For those who know what the following means: it was like the difference between a basic Drupal blog site and a Drupal site built using custom content types that have CCK fields, and with the nodes put into a hierarchy. Instead of something smart like that, BHO has a simple blog, for the reason stated above. As for Winer, maybe now that BHO is elected he'll unlock that thread where he deleted my comment: 24ahead.com/blog/archives/008091.html Regarding transparency, they offer a sanitized version of someone's bio: 24ahead.com/whitehousegov-omits-blagojevich-link-michael-strautmanis-bio Regarding their projects letting citizens submit questions and proposals, I describe how much of a scam they were here: http://24ahead.com/citizens-briefing-book-latest-barack-obama-scam If Jarvis wants transparency that won't require very major legislation, he should push plans that will result in BHO being asked the questions that the MSM is too crooked to ask, the questions that BHO needs to be asked but was not at any during the last two years. BHO has a blog for the same reason that MegaLoMart, Inc. has a blog: it helps them have a hip, cool with-it, down-with-it image.

What was at the WH before was a news page… with items grouped by the day… in descending order. Kinda like something else. Except, each event had one or more links to video, a transcript, associated press releases, etc. etc. It was like a grown-up blog. For those who know what the following means: it was like the difference between a basic Drupal blog site and a Drupal site built using custom content types that have CCK fields, and with the nodes put into a hierarchy. Instead of something smart like that, BHO has a simple blog, for the reason stated above.

As for Winer, maybe now that BHO is elected he’ll unlock that thread where he deleted my comment:
24ahead.com/blog/archives/008091.html

Regarding transparency, they offer a sanitized version of someone’s bio:
24ahead.com/whitehousegov-omits-blagojevich-link-michael-strautmanis-bio

Regarding their projects letting citizens submit questions and proposals, I describe how much of a scam they were here:

http://24ahead.com/citizens-briefing-book-latest-barack-obama-scam

If Jarvis wants transparency that won’t require very major legislation, he should push plans that will result in BHO being asked the questions that the MSM is too crooked to ask, the questions that BHO needs to be asked but was not at any during the last two years.

]]> By: O blog que não é blog « Webmanário http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389683 O blog que não é blog « Webmanário Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:50:14 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389683 [...] Jarvis, professor da Universidade de Nova York, acha que ainda é cedo para avaliar o trabalho da equipe de Obama na web. Eu também, mas isso significa que caracterizar o [...] [...] Jarvis, professor da Universidade de Nova York, acha que ainda é cedo para avaliar o trabalho da equipe de Obama na web. Eu também, mas isso significa que caracterizar o [...]

]]> By: Adam Giovane http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389681 Adam Giovane Thu, 22 Jan 2009 03:10:52 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389681 Dave are you forgetting that he is still a politician? I knew once Obama was elected on Nov 4th he wouldn't bother writing on his Twitter page after that. He used Twitter to it's end and that was it, discarded. I knew it so much that I predicted on Hubdub.com and bet on it. Perhaps you should put your money where you mouth is and saying that Obama will write a blog post within the next few weeks on WhiteHouse.gov Want me to invite you to Hubdub.com? ;-P Dave are you forgetting that he is still a politician? I knew once Obama was elected on Nov 4th he wouldn’t bother writing on his Twitter page after that. He used Twitter to it’s end and that was it, discarded. I knew it so much that I predicted on Hubdub.com and bet on it.

Perhaps you should put your money where you mouth is and saying that Obama will write a blog post within the next few weeks on WhiteHouse.gov Want me to invite you to Hubdub.com? ;-P

]]> By: Dave Winer http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389680 Dave Winer Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:59:39 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389680 NY Times roundup of criticism of whitehouse.gov. http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/new-year-new-president-new-blogs/ I know you respect the Times. NY Times roundup of criticism of whitehouse.gov.

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/01/21/new-year-new-president-new-blogs/

I know you respect the Times.

]]> By: MarkJ http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389679 MarkJ Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:40:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389679 "Now that Barack Obama is in the White House, he must continue to use and spread the tools of the internet and transparency that he so brilliantly plied to win the office or else it would make his promises of change empty." Ummm, Jeff. Where have you been the last few months? Nearly all the promises of "change" by His Preppiness have already been shown to be empty. Take a look at his cabinet, for starters. Mostly in their 60's, mostly white, mostly Old Beltway Hands, and with some really questionable ethics. Yeah, that's real hopeyropeydopeychange. Bill Richardson anyone? Eric "Pardon Boy" Holder perhaps? Hillary Clinton? How about a Secretary of the Treasury nominee who can't even figure out his own tax forms? Tom "Miss South Dakota Goat Rope 1973" Daschle? Puh-leeeeze. Oh well, I hear Obama is going to be a real cool hep-cat and throw up more Glorious Dear Leader propaganda vids on YouTube for the kiddies. Gee, they'll definitely ignore them then. Of course, if His Preppiness really wants people to click on his vids, he should label them "HOT RUSSIAN LESBO ACTION" or "HERMAPHRODITE JELL-O WRESTLING" or "MICHELLE OBAMA - NEKKID!" Capisce, paisan? “Now that Barack Obama is in the White House, he must continue to use and spread the tools of the internet and transparency that he so brilliantly plied to win the office or else it would make his promises of change empty.”

Ummm, Jeff. Where have you been the last few months? Nearly all the promises of “change” by His Preppiness have already been shown to be empty. Take a look at his cabinet, for starters. Mostly in their 60’s, mostly white, mostly Old Beltway Hands, and with some really questionable ethics. Yeah, that’s real hopeyropeydopeychange. Bill Richardson anyone? Eric “Pardon Boy” Holder perhaps? Hillary Clinton? How about a Secretary of the Treasury nominee who can’t even figure out his own tax forms? Tom “Miss South Dakota Goat Rope 1973″ Daschle? Puh-leeeeze.

Oh well, I hear Obama is going to be a real cool hep-cat and throw up more Glorious Dear Leader propaganda vids on YouTube for the kiddies. Gee, they’ll definitely ignore them then. Of course, if His Preppiness really wants people to click on his vids, he should label them “HOT RUSSIAN LESBO ACTION” or “HERMAPHRODITE JELL-O WRESTLING” or “MICHELLE OBAMA – NEKKID!”

Capisce, paisan?

]]> By: DYSPEPSIA GENERATION » Blog Archive » Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389678 DYSPEPSIA GENERATION » Blog Archive » Campaign by the internet, govern by the internet Thu, 22 Jan 2009 02:31:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389678 [...] Read it. [...] [...] Read it. [...]

]]> By: Dave Winer http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/01/21/campaign-by-the-internet-govern-by-the-internet/#comment-389677 Dave Winer Thu, 22 Jan 2009 01:51:50 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4056#comment-389677 When you criticize something Jeff you're not complaining, you're criticizing. What did you think of the points I made? What happens when they lock it down and ask why we didn't say something when it was fluid? Didn't you used to be a TV critic? Do you think that it's possible that I might have a good vision for what's possible, based on my past contributions? A little support can go a long way. And btw Jeff <i>this</i> is a complaint. :-) When you criticize something Jeff you’re not complaining, you’re criticizing.

What did you think of the points I made?

What happens when they lock it down and ask why we didn’t say something when it was fluid? Didn’t you used to be a TV critic?

Do you think that it’s possible that I might have a good vision for what’s possible, based on my past contributions?

A little support can go a long way.

And btw Jeff this is a complaint. :-)

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