Comments on: No Jan. 20 for newspapers http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/ by Jeff Jarvis Sat, 20 Mar 2010 16:56:24 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Paul Seaman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-392127 Paul Seaman Tue, 24 Mar 2009 06:48:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-392127 Clay Shirky is right to say we need journalism more than we need newspapers. He is, however, entirely wrong to be so pessimistic about the future of newspapers. In fact, Shirky misses the point completely about what newspapers were about in the first place. I answer his essay on my PR blog here: http://paulseaman.eu/2009/03/the-death-of-journalism-not-likely/ Clay Shirky is right to say we need journalism more than we need newspapers. He is, however, entirely wrong to be so pessimistic about the future of newspapers. In fact, Shirky misses the point completely about what newspapers were about in the first place. I answer his essay on my PR blog here:

http://paulseaman.eu/2009/03/the-death-of-journalism-not-likely/

]]> By: Creative Loafing, postscript to the lesson « Virtualjournalist http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-392064 Creative Loafing, postscript to the lesson « Virtualjournalist Sun, 22 Mar 2009 20:17:32 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-392064 [...] it’s not the case everywhere, I always understood CL’s Tampa news operation to have an open culture, one where ideas [...] [...] it’s not the case everywhere, I always understood CL’s Tampa news operation to have an open culture, one where ideas [...]

]]> By: Marco http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391853 Marco Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:59:14 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391853 I'm not sure people will pay for good journalism. Think about where growth has been in covering current events in the last 10 years? Talk radio (very biased), Fox News (moderately biased), Blogs (very to moderately biased) ... they have all seen their ad revenue increase, while left learning 'papers' and other news outlets (prime time TV news) have seen their ad revenues decline. I think what you're seeing is that covering current events (sometimes called News), is going back to what it used to be (when there were only papers), namely partisan coverage on both sides, and very little in the middle ... and certainly no one is paying for that ... although apparently they'll agree to be advertised to. Personally, I enjoy reading the Economist, paying for a subscription (I'm told they are increasing their readership) ... and while I like the quality of their journalism, they are most certainly not without their biases ... albeit clearly stated. I’m not sure people will pay for good journalism. Think about where growth has been in covering current events in the last 10 years?

Talk radio (very biased), Fox News (moderately biased), Blogs (very to moderately biased) … they have all seen their ad revenue increase, while left learning ‘papers’ and other news outlets (prime time TV news) have seen their ad revenues decline.

I think what you’re seeing is that covering current events (sometimes called News), is going back to what it used to be (when there were only papers), namely partisan coverage on both sides, and very little in the middle … and certainly no one is paying for that … although apparently they’ll agree to be advertised to.

Personally, I enjoy reading the Economist, paying for a subscription (I’m told they are increasing their readership) … and while I like the quality of their journalism, they are most certainly not without their biases … albeit clearly stated.

]]> By: Max Planck and The Structure of the News Revolution « NP-Harder http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391848 Max Planck and The Structure of the News Revolution « NP-Harder Mon, 16 Mar 2009 19:00:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391848 [...] the News Revolution There have been some great posts recently about the future of news, from Jarvis and Clay Sharkey.  I can’t wait to see how it all ends.  I’m reminded of a seminal [...] [...] the News Revolution There have been some great posts recently about the future of news, from Jarvis and Clay Sharkey.  I can’t wait to see how it all ends.  I’m reminded of a seminal [...]

]]> By: Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » March 16, 2009: The people with real jobs http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391841 Journalista - the news weblog of The Comics Journal » Blog Archive » March 16, 2009: The people with real jobs Mon, 16 Mar 2009 13:11:44 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391841 [...] (Link via Jeff Jarvis.) [...] [...] (Link via Jeff Jarvis.) [...]

]]> By: Newspapers and the world of tomorrow « Virtualjournalist http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391830 Newspapers and the world of tomorrow « Virtualjournalist Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:06:44 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391830 [...] Jarvis nods in agreement. Yes, and until we make those experiments and learn from them, the optimists - Clay, Jay [Rosen], [...] [...] Jarvis nods in agreement. Yes, and until we make those experiments and learn from them, the optimists – Clay, Jay [Rosen], [...]

]]> By: Wortfeld » Das Undenkbare | Clay Shirky über die Zukunft der Zeitungen. http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391829 Wortfeld » Das Undenkbare | Clay Shirky über die Zukunft der Zeitungen. Sun, 15 Mar 2009 20:54:25 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391829 [...] paar Reaktionen: Jeff Jarvis warnt, dass die Zeitungen nicht die letzte Branche sein werden, die es trifft. Cory Doctorow sieht [...] [...] paar Reaktionen: Jeff Jarvis warnt, dass die Zeitungen nicht die letzte Branche sein werden, die es trifft. Cory Doctorow sieht [...]

]]> By: David H. http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391827 David H. Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:52:18 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391827 I'll take an endowment. Where are they handing them out? I’ll take an endowment. Where are they handing them out?

]]> By: Socialreporter | Newspapers are gone. We still need journalists http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391826 Socialreporter | Newspapers are gone. We still need journalists Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:36:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391826 [...] Jeff Javis has been saying for some time that many newspapers are gone, so not surprisingly he endorses Clay’s piece. I love it when local and global conversations join up. Newspapers never did that - unless you were [...] [...] Jeff Javis has been saying for some time that many newspapers are gone, so not surprisingly he endorses Clay’s piece. I love it when local and global conversations join up. Newspapers never did that – unless you were [...]

]]> By: Socialreporter | Newspapers are gone. We still need journalists http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391825 Socialreporter | Newspapers are gone. We still need journalists Sun, 15 Mar 2009 19:36:02 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391825 [...] Jeff Javis has been saying for some time that many newspapers are gone, so not surprisingly he endorses Clay’s piece. I love it when local and global conversations join up. Newspapers never did that - unless you were [...] [...] Jeff Javis has been saying for some time that many newspapers are gone, so not surprisingly he endorses Clay’s piece. I love it when local and global conversations join up. Newspapers never did that – unless you were [...]

]]> By: Paul Evans http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391824 Paul Evans Sun, 15 Mar 2009 17:45:31 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391824 robert ivan I can't suggest a web site, at least in part because the web site at my newspaper is part of a separate company. An additional layer of irony in this instance is that the editorial innovation director has no direct ability to do anything online. Everything he would conceive online must be done in negotiation with a web unit that aggregates several newspapers owned by the over-arching corporation. The web units and the papers have a highly antagonistic relationship. A subsidiary issue is, of course, that identification of the paper or the web unit would likely result in my termination. I would like to play a role in what they are doing, but leadership has made it abundantly clear they don't want staff input and that discussion of our issues, even in general terms, outside the company is grounds for firing. However, as of the last ABCs, my masthead was one of the top 20 US newspapers in terms of circulation. robert ivan
I can’t suggest a web site, at least in part because the web site at my newspaper is part of a separate company. An additional layer of irony in this instance is that the editorial innovation director has no direct ability to do anything online. Everything he would conceive online must be done in negotiation with a web unit that aggregates several newspapers owned by the over-arching corporation. The web units and the papers have a highly antagonistic relationship.

A subsidiary issue is, of course, that identification of the paper or the web unit would likely result in my termination. I would like to play a role in what they are doing, but leadership has made it abundantly clear they don’t want staff input and that discussion of our issues, even in general terms, outside the company is grounds for firing.

However, as of the last ABCs, my masthead was one of the top 20 US newspapers in terms of circulation.

]]> By: Jay Currie http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391820 Jay Currie Sun, 15 Mar 2009 05:51:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391820 Jeff, you understand what the product actually is: journalism. And people will pay for that but they will not pay for left wing, kool-aid drinking, opinion passed off as news, edited to banality, factually challenged, union driven, pap pretending to be journalism. You are old enough to remember Irving Stone - hardcore, smart, agendized - but every fact and every quote checked and rechecked. People will pay for that but they will not pay for re-written press releases and election cover which is all about horse racing. Newspapers and much of television has no future - journalism does. But it will not be conducted by J-school grads nor will it be done by the lazy buggers who currently write for newspapers. At the local level it will be done by people who care about their communities; at the state and national level it will be done by people who are motivated and can see ways of making a living doing what they love. Jeff, you understand what the product actually is: journalism. And people will pay for that but they will not pay for left wing, kool-aid drinking, opinion passed off as news, edited to banality, factually challenged, union driven, pap pretending to be journalism.

You are old enough to remember Irving Stone – hardcore, smart, agendized – but every fact and every quote checked and rechecked. People will pay for that but they will not pay for re-written press releases and election cover which is all about horse racing.

Newspapers and much of television has no future – journalism does. But it will not be conducted by J-school grads nor will it be done by the lazy buggers who currently write for newspapers.

At the local level it will be done by people who care about their communities; at the state and national level it will be done by people who are motivated and can see ways of making a living doing what they love.

]]> By: robert ivan http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391819 robert ivan Sun, 15 Mar 2009 05:39:34 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391819 @paul evans If you were to suggest a news website to me for the purposes of tracking that newspaper's readership over the next few months, what would be the name of that newspaper? @paul evans
If you were to suggest a news website to me for the purposes of tracking that newspaper’s readership over the next few months, what would be the name of that newspaper?

]]> By: Paul Evans http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391818 Paul Evans Sun, 15 Mar 2009 05:30:31 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391818 At my paper I got a lecture from an editor about how people talking about changing to meet the future were the cancer killing newspapers. He talked about how people (like me) had talked papers into the cardinal sin of giving content away for free and now were compounding that error by pushing for hyper-local efforts, unbundled web sites, and a focus on unique content. He told me the paper needed to start doing things like charging people to see our stuff. But most important was that they needed to stop listening to people like me. Your name, Jeff, came up more than once as a major figure who has led newspapers in the wrong direction. The next week he was named director of editorial innovation. Sadly, a true story. Happened just a couple of months ago. At my paper I got a lecture from an editor about how people talking about changing to meet the future were the cancer killing newspapers. He talked about how people (like me) had talked papers into the cardinal sin of giving content away for free and now were compounding that error by pushing for hyper-local efforts, unbundled web sites, and a focus on unique content. He told me the paper needed to start doing things like charging people to see our stuff. But most important was that they needed to stop listening to people like me. Your name, Jeff, came up more than once as a major figure who has led newspapers in the wrong direction.

The next week he was named director of editorial innovation. Sadly, a true story. Happened just a couple of months ago.

]]> By: Clay Shirky: Save Society, Not Newspapers | The Noisy Channel http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391817 Clay Shirky: Save Society, Not Newspapers | The Noisy Channel Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:39:24 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391817 [...] right. We should be worrying about the end, not the means. I don’t subscribe to his and Jeff Jarvis’s faith-based optimism; I’m not convinced that the market demands it enough. Witness the [...] [...] right. We should be worrying about the end, not the means. I don’t subscribe to his and Jeff Jarvis’s faith-based optimism; I’m not convinced that the market demands it enough. Witness the [...]

]]> By: Absolutely Brilliant! | Reinventing Yourself... http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391811 Absolutely Brilliant! | Reinventing Yourself... Sat, 14 Mar 2009 19:40:38 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391811 [...] As did Jeff Jarvis: No January 20 for newspapers [...] [...] As did Jeff Jarvis: No January 20 for newspapers [...]

]]> By: The Farm Report › http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391807 The Farm Report › Sat, 14 Mar 2009 17:46:11 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391807 [...] more interesting thumbsuckers from Jeff Jarvis:  the end of the pay meme and the great restructuring. This was written by admin. Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009, at [...] [...] more interesting thumbsuckers from Jeff Jarvis:  the end of the pay meme and the great restructuring. This was written by admin. Posted on Saturday, March 14, 2009, at [...]

]]> By: Mark Rutledge http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/03/14/no-jan-20-for-newspapers/#comment-391799 Mark Rutledge Sat, 14 Mar 2009 15:25:17 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4382#comment-391799 "...but over time, the collection of new experiments that do work might give us the reporting we need." With that kind of faith, who needs prayer? “…but over time, the collection of new experiments that do work might give us the reporting we need.”

With that kind of faith, who needs prayer?

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