Comments on: Great Restructuring III: The war over change http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:40:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Jeff Jarvis: Werdet eine Plattform » netzwertig.com http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-394005 Jeff Jarvis: Werdet eine Plattform » netzwertig.com Wed, 06 May 2009 10:16:27 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-394005 [...] Great Restructuring III: The war over change [...] [...] Great Restructuring III: The war over change [...]

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392662 Andy Freeman Tue, 07 Apr 2009 01:05:46 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392662 > I wonder if there isn’t another way in which the Web can be organized and relevance gained Yes. > that reduces the influence of Google It's unclear if Google will develop it. > and returns some of the value that Google is reaping "returns"? Google is reaping the value of the organization that Google produces. Content producers are reaping the value of what they produce. It turns out that organization is often a lot more valuable than content.... > for the rest of us? Why shouldn't value go to the producer? > I wonder if there isn’t another way in which the Web can be organized and relevance gained

Yes.

> that reduces the influence of Google

It’s unclear if Google will develop it.

> and returns some of the value that Google is reaping

“returns”?

Google is reaping the value of the organization that Google produces. Content producers are reaping the value of what they produce. It turns out that organization is often a lot more valuable than content….

> for the rest of us?

Why shouldn’t value go to the producer?

]]> By: Anthony Moor http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392656 Anthony Moor Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:46:34 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392656 OOps. i meant Forbes. OOps. i meant Forbes.

]]> By: Anthony Moor http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392655 Anthony Moor Mon, 06 Apr 2009 19:46:15 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392655 Jeff, I found myself inadvertently on Murdoch's side when Fortune called me for a comment. Now I'm a kook, used as the kicker for the article. Clarifying my own thoughts for those who've followed the link: Just to clarify, I'm not one of those who think Google is the death of newspapers. Quite the contrary, I emphasized to reporter Dirk Smillie that search engines are the default home page for people using the Internet, and as such, direct a lot of traffic to us. That traffic is important. I don't believe Google is "stealing" our content. And I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about "turning off" to Google. We don't matter much to Google. I was musing about what might happen if all news sites turned off for a week. What would people think? Would they survive? (Maybe.) I wasn't suggesting we block Google from spidering our content. That wouldn't test the "what if digital news went dark" hypothesis. In any case, none of that will fix our own broken business model. Google organizes the Web. Something needs to do that. My concern is that they're effectively a monopoly player in that space. Oh sure, there's Yahoo, but who "Yahoos" information on the Web? I understand and recognize the revolutionary nature of the link economy, but I'm concerned that it's Google which defines relevance via their algorithms. (Yes, I know that they're leveraging what people have chosen to make relevant, but they're still applying their own secret sauce, which is why we all game it with SEO efforts) and that puts the rest of us in a very subservient position. I wonder if there isn't another way in which the Web can be organized and relevance gained that reduces the influence of Google and returns some of the value that Google is reaping for the rest of us? I predict that someday there will be and all this talk of Google's dominance will be history. Jeff,

I found myself inadvertently on Murdoch’s side when Fortune called me for a comment. Now I’m a kook, used as the kicker for the article. Clarifying my own thoughts for those who’ve followed the link:

Just to clarify, I’m not one of those who think Google is the death of newspapers. Quite the contrary, I emphasized to reporter Dirk Smillie that search engines are the default home page for people using the Internet, and as such, direct a lot of traffic to us. That traffic is important. I don’t believe Google is “stealing” our content. And I was being a bit tongue-in-cheek about “turning off” to Google. We don’t matter much to Google. I was musing about what might happen if all news sites turned off for a week. What would people think? Would they survive? (Maybe.) I wasn’t suggesting we block Google from spidering our content. That wouldn’t test the “what if digital news went dark” hypothesis. In any case, none of that will fix our own broken business model.

Google organizes the Web. Something needs to do that. My concern is that they’re effectively a monopoly player in that space. Oh sure, there’s Yahoo, but who “Yahoos” information on the Web? I understand and recognize the revolutionary nature of the link economy, but I’m concerned that it’s Google which defines relevance via their algorithms. (Yes, I know that they’re leveraging what people have chosen to make relevant, but they’re still applying their own secret sauce, which is why we all game it with SEO efforts) and that puts the rest of us in a very subservient position.

I wonder if there isn’t another way in which the Web can be organized and relevance gained that reduces the influence of Google and returns some of the value that Google is reaping for the rest of us? I predict that someday there will be and all this talk of Google’s dominance will be history.

]]> By: Jeff Jarvis http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392640 Jeff Jarvis Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:35:28 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392640 I'm not saying anyone shouldn't run anything. i'm just saying his head was up his.... how does one say that in the uk, arse? I’m not saying anyone shouldn’t run anything. i’m just saying his head was up his…. how does one say that in the uk, arse?

]]> By: Steve - UK http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392637 Steve - UK Mon, 06 Apr 2009 16:24:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392637 I don't usually find myself defending the Guardian - but surely Jeff you must realise that the views of contributors don't necessarily reflect the opinion of the Guardian board or editors. Or are you suggesting newspapers shouldn't run pieces by people with an opposing view to the leader page? Pass the aspirin indeed I don’t usually find myself defending the Guardian – but surely Jeff you must realise that the views of contributors don’t necessarily reflect the opinion of the Guardian board or editors. Or are you suggesting newspapers shouldn’t run pieces by people with an opposing view to the leader page? Pass the aspirin indeed

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392634 Andy Freeman Mon, 06 Apr 2009 15:24:35 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392634 > but it does not come close to providing the complex, well-written fully-formed ideas available in printed form. Yes. Newspapers have style, but accuracy matters more in news. The narrative form is well-suited to fiction and propaganda. > Anyone who can fill the void of reading pleasure will take the internet to the next level. In the future I hope we spend a lot less time searching, searching, searching… While I agree, the "truth" problem remains. > but it does not come close to providing the complex, well-written fully-formed ideas available in printed form.

Yes. Newspapers have style, but accuracy matters more in news.

The narrative form is well-suited to fiction and propaganda.

> Anyone who can fill the void of reading pleasure will take the internet to the next level. In the future I hope we spend a lot less time searching, searching, searching…

While I agree, the “truth” problem remains.

]]> By: Eric Gauvin http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392624 Eric Gauvin Mon, 06 Apr 2009 12:10:48 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392624 Printed media provide reading pleasure, which so far the internet does not. The internet provides great satisfaction in searching for small pieces of information that we assemble into a personalized, larger meaningful whole, but it does not come close to providing the complex, well-written fully-formed ideas available in printed form. Anyone who can fill the void of reading pleasure will take the internet to the next level. In the future I hope we spend a lot less time searching, searching, searching... Printed media provide reading pleasure, which so far the internet does not. The internet provides great satisfaction in searching for small pieces of information that we assemble into a personalized, larger meaningful whole, but it does not come close to providing the complex, well-written fully-formed ideas available in printed form.

Anyone who can fill the void of reading pleasure will take the internet to the next level. In the future I hope we spend a lot less time searching, searching, searching…

]]> By: Stanley David http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392618 Stanley David Mon, 06 Apr 2009 08:22:56 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392618 I'm agree with your 5 solutions how to dealing with this changing. I’m agree with your 5 solutions how to dealing with this changing.

]]> By: Rodney Johnson http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392604 Rodney Johnson Sun, 05 Apr 2009 23:25:52 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392604 I'm wondering whose keeping score. Has anyone taken the top 100 newspaper properties in the world from let's say 2005, and then keep a monthly running tab showing which have been sold, which are in some form or bankruptcy and which have folded up their shop. My guess is, this would be an interesting graphic, and possibly quite dynamic. I’m wondering whose keeping score. Has anyone taken the top 100 newspaper properties in the world from let’s say 2005, and then keep a monthly running tab showing which have been sold, which are in some form or bankruptcy and which have folded up their shop. My guess is, this would be an interesting graphic, and possibly quite dynamic.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392601 Andy Freeman Sun, 05 Apr 2009 22:40:28 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392601 The "don't contribute anything" argument is basically that folks are satisfied with headlines and don't click through to the articles themselves. That says something about the relative value of headlines and articles. The “don’t contribute anything” argument is basically that folks are satisfied with headlines and don’t click through to the articles themselves.

That says something about the relative value of headlines and articles.

]]> By: Daniel Tunkelang http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392583 Daniel Tunkelang Sun, 05 Apr 2009 18:08:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392583 Jeff, I know we rarely agree when it comes to our assessment of all things Google, but here I'm with you that the article is a screed. http://thenoisychannel.com/2009/04/05/im-no-google-fan-boy-but/ Jeff, I know we rarely agree when it comes to our assessment of all things Google, but here I’m with you that the article is a screed.

http://thenoisychannel.com/2009/04/05/im-no-google-fan-boy-but/

]]> By: geirmund knutsen http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/04/05/great-restructuring-iii-the-war-over-change/#comment-392581 geirmund knutsen Sun, 05 Apr 2009 17:48:26 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=4505#comment-392581 Thanks for timely words Jeff. I woke up to Observer on my London doorstep this morning and headed straight for the op-ed pages where I found Porter's piece on Google. Struggling what to think of it, with 50-odd pages to go of your book that I picked up in Union Sq, NY a couple of weeks ago, I was gasping for a Jarvis retort, After a wonderful day at the Convention on Modern Liberty last month, in part initiated by Henry Porter, his comment in today's paper found little sympathy with me. All the best Thanks for timely words Jeff. I woke up to Observer on my London doorstep this morning and headed straight for the op-ed pages where I found Porter’s piece on Google. Struggling what to think of it, with 50-odd pages to go of your book that I picked up in Union Sq, NY a couple of weeks ago, I was gasping for a Jarvis retort,

After a wonderful day at the Convention on Modern Liberty last month, in part initiated by Henry Porter, his comment in today’s paper found little sympathy with me.

All the best

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