Comments on: Get off the lawn http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/ by Jeff Jarvis Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:20:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Progettare Giardini http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-433126 Progettare Giardini Mon, 29 Nov 2010 19:26:18 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-433126 “How will journalism survive the internet age?” The answer for me is "In the same way it survived until now", at least in those cases where no governement helps have been received... Good news, good articles, all require professional work, and professional work in most cases have to be payed. In other words: paper or Internet, it's the same. With no professionality and no good content you cannot attract many readers... “How will journalism survive the internet age?”
The answer for me is “In the same way it survived until now”, at least in those cases where no governement helps have been received… Good news, good articles, all require professional work, and professional work in most cases have to be payed. In other words: paper or Internet, it’s the same. With no professionality and no good content you cannot attract many readers…

]]> By: Is The Government Getting Ready To Bailout Newspapers? | What Am I Missing Here? http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-417389 Is The Government Getting Ready To Bailout Newspapers? | What Am I Missing Here? Tue, 29 Jun 2010 15:39:38 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-417389 [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document.  It’s this:   Get off our lawn. [...] [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document.  It’s this:   Get off our lawn. [...]

]]> By: FTC on “saving” journalism: Disaster waiting to happen « Laura Creekmore http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415748 FTC on “saving” journalism: Disaster waiting to happen « Laura Creekmore Tue, 08 Jun 2010 16:57:35 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415748 [...] Jeff Jarvis puts it nicely: “Get off our lawn.” [...] [...] Jeff Jarvis puts it nicely: “Get off our lawn.” [...]

]]> By: Jarvis: il governo Usa protegge il giornalismo del passato | LSDI http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415745 Jarvis: il governo Usa protegge il giornalismo del passato | LSDI Tue, 08 Jun 2010 14:18:57 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415745 [...] Il vero consiglio da me dato alla FTC non è citato nel documento. È questo: Fuori dal nostro giardino! Get off our lawn. [...] [...] Il vero consiglio da me dato alla FTC non è citato nel documento. È questo: Fuori dal nostro giardino! Get off our lawn. [...]

]]> By: jardenberg kommenterar – 2 Jun, 2010 | jardenberg unedited http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415334 jardenberg kommenterar – 2 Jun, 2010 | jardenberg unedited Wed, 02 Jun 2010 09:08:19 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415334 [...] - Jeff Jarvis ångar på. Hur orkar han? Läs den här parallellt: http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/ [...] [...] – Jeff Jarvis ångar på. Hur orkar han? Läs den här parallellt: http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/ [...]

]]> By: Dave Scott http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415126 Dave Scott Sun, 30 May 2010 03:27:54 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415126 The FTC is really strengthening and empowering the FTC with this plan to provide public subsidy for failing newspapers. The FTC is really strengthening and empowering the FTC with this plan to provide public subsidy for failing newspapers.

]]> By: The Government Is Preparing To Bail Out Newspapers And Media Moguls And Kill Blogs | SHOUTing GORIlla http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415088 The Government Is Preparing To Bail Out Newspapers And Media Moguls And Kill Blogs | SHOUTing GORIlla Sat, 29 May 2010 18:31:12 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415088 [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document. It’s this: Get off our lawn. [...] [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document. It’s this: Get off our lawn. [...]

]]> By: FTC protects journalism’s past « BuzzMachine http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-415081 FTC protects journalism’s past « BuzzMachine Sat, 29 May 2010 16:13:33 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-415081 [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document. It’s this: Get off our lawn. [...] [...] The real advice I gave the FTC is not quoted in the document. It’s this: Get off our lawn. [...]

]]> By: The Greenroom » Forum Archive » A Monstrous Vision For Media Reform http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-409094 The Greenroom » Forum Archive » A Monstrous Vision For Media Reform Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:57:23 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-409094 [...] was a voice of reason at times during the roundtable. She joined other Internet media entrepreneurs who at an FTC workshop last fall rejected the idea of public subsidies for [...] [...] was a voice of reason at times during the roundtable. She joined other Internet media entrepreneurs who at an FTC workshop last fall rejected the idea of public subsidies for [...]

]]> By: Digital Society » Blog Archive » A Monstrous Vision For Media Reform http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-409087 Digital Society » Blog Archive » A Monstrous Vision For Media Reform Fri, 19 Feb 2010 13:32:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-409087 [...] was a voice of reason at times during the roundtable. She joined other Internet media entrepreneurs who at an FTC workshop last fall rejected the idea of public subsidies for [...] [...] was a voice of reason at times during the roundtable. She joined other Internet media entrepreneurs who at an FTC workshop last fall rejected the idea of public subsidies for [...]

]]> By: Thomas http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-406500 Thomas Thu, 24 Dec 2009 17:11:21 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-406500 Waxman never saw a lawn he didn't want to tell the person how to run. Waxman never saw a lawn he didn’t want to tell the person how to run.

]]> By: Dermitt http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405950 Dermitt Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:04:53 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405950 P.S. Get down under the lawn is good too. If you want to be Aussie about it mate. P.S. Get down under the lawn is good too. If you want to be Aussie about it mate.

]]> By: Dermitt http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405949 Dermitt Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:03:03 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405949 Get off the lawn or I'll shoot usually works better. It'll land you in the newspaper though! So say something like get in or under the lawn. Get off the lawn or I’ll shoot usually works better. It’ll land you in the newspaper though! So say something like get in or under the lawn.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405894 Andy Freeman Thu, 10 Dec 2009 20:03:34 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405894 I pointed out that Levine's argument about net neutrality was irrelevant to the issue at hand, that he didn't know what net neutrality is, and that his position on net neutrality is probably wrong. Given that, he didn't have many options for a response. Here's another one - I'm wearing ugly pants. I pointed out that Levine’s argument about net neutrality was irrelevant to the issue at hand, that he didn’t know what net neutrality is, and that his position on net neutrality is probably wrong.

Given that, he didn’t have many options for a response.

Here’s another one – I’m wearing ugly pants.

]]> By: Eric Gauvin http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405881 Eric Gauvin Thu, 10 Dec 2009 12:10:39 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405881 hee hee... so I'm not the only one who thinks Freeman sounds like a robot... hee hee… so I’m not the only one who thinks Freeman sounds like a robot…

]]> By: AnnB http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405722 AnnB Mon, 07 Dec 2009 01:47:58 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405722 In the end, many people will pay for content as long as it's what they want and it's convenient. In the end, many people will pay for content as long as it’s what they want and it’s convenient.

]]> By: Robert Levine http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405721 Robert Levine Mon, 07 Dec 2009 00:55:51 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405721 If you feel I've strayed from the topic at hand, my previous posts should make it obvious why. But I can't get more specific because I can barely understand what you're saying and I'm not going to respond unless you call me by my first name. If you feel I’ve strayed from the topic at hand, my previous posts should make it obvious why.

But I can’t get more specific because I can barely understand what you’re saying and I’m not going to respond unless you call me by my first name.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405720 Andy Freeman Sun, 06 Dec 2009 23:48:42 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405720 If Levine wants to talk about net neutrality, let's talk about it. AT&T has thousands of partners. It's likely that at least one of them considers Levine's biz to be a competitor. For the purposes of discussion, let's assume that I'm a reader of Levine's on-line publications, under terms that both he and I find acceptable. Furthermore, let's assume that I get my net connection from AT&T. Net neutrality opponents, such as Ed Whitacre (ex AT&T CEO, who I have cited), think that AT&T should be allowed to block my access to Levine's publications. Google says that AT&T should not be allowed to block my access to Levine's publications. Does Levine agree with Whitacre or with Google? If Levine wants to talk about net neutrality, let’s talk about it.

AT&T has thousands of partners. It’s likely that at least one of them considers Levine’s biz to be a competitor.

For the purposes of discussion, let’s assume that I’m a reader of Levine’s on-line publications, under terms that both he and I find acceptable. Furthermore, let’s assume that I get my net connection from AT&T.

Net neutrality opponents, such as Ed Whitacre (ex AT&T CEO, who I have cited), think that AT&T should be allowed to block my access to Levine’s publications. Google says that AT&T should not be allowed to block my access to Levine’s publications.

Does Levine agree with Whitacre or with Google?

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405719 Andy Freeman Sun, 06 Dec 2009 22:25:04 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405719 > My points are that, first, the “don’t be evil” tagline is ridiculous. Second. there are situations when _following_ Chinese law would _violate_ U.S. interests, international norms or morality. So what? The tagline is irrelevant to a discussion of net neutrality. As I wrote "Journologic aside, “X did bad thing, X wants to do Y, therefore Y is bad” isn’t actually a valid argument. (FWIW, I think that “don’t be evil” is puffery.)" > My point about net neutrality is that it *is government intervention* So what? Suppose that we agree that Google is evil and that net neutrality is wrong. That doesn't imply that govt handouts to journalism is a good idea. You remember "govt handouts to journalism - good or bad, discuss". It's the topic of discussion.... Even if you expand things to "what will it take to save journalism", "google, good or evil?" isn't relevant. Neither is net neutrality. > My points are that, first, the “don’t be evil” tagline is ridiculous. Second. there are situations when _following_ Chinese law would _violate_ U.S. interests, international norms or morality.

So what? The tagline is irrelevant to a discussion of net neutrality.

As I wrote “Journologic aside, “X did bad thing, X wants to do Y, therefore Y is bad” isn’t actually a valid argument. (FWIW, I think that “don’t be evil” is puffery.)”

> My point about net neutrality is that it *is government intervention*

So what?

Suppose that we agree that Google is evil and that net neutrality is wrong. That doesn’t imply that govt handouts to journalism is a good idea.

You remember “govt handouts to journalism – good or bad, discuss”. It’s the topic of discussion….

Even if you expand things to “what will it take to save journalism”, “google, good or evil?” isn’t relevant. Neither is net neutrality.

]]> By: Robert Levine http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405696 Robert Levine Sun, 06 Dec 2009 06:42:25 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405696 >>>Then again, as I pointed out, what Google does in China has nothing to do with what’s good for the US. That's not my point. My points are that, first, the "don't be evil" tagline is ridiculous. Second. there are situations when _following_ Chinese law would _violate_ U.S. interests, international norms or morality. I doubt most people here share my politics, but would you be comfortable if Google had done business in '70s South Africa? My point about net neutrality is that it *is government intervention* - just like tax breaks for broadband providers, state-level tax breaks for Google data centers, etc. But you will never see Jeff arguing against those things. I think the poor dear has started to confuse Google _with_ the government, only natural given that they use the same airfield. >>>Then again, as I pointed out, what Google does in China has nothing to do with what’s good for the US.

That’s not my point. My points are that, first, the “don’t be evil” tagline is ridiculous. Second. there are situations when _following_ Chinese law would _violate_ U.S. interests, international norms or morality. I doubt most people here share my politics, but would you be comfortable if Google had done business in ’70s South Africa?

My point about net neutrality is that it *is government intervention* – just like tax breaks for broadband providers, state-level tax breaks for Google data centers, etc. But you will never see Jeff arguing against those things. I think the poor dear has started to confuse Google _with_ the government, only natural given that they use the same airfield.

]]> By: Get off the lawn « BuzzMachine | lawn care guide http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405692 Get off the lawn « BuzzMachine | lawn care guide Sun, 06 Dec 2009 05:45:49 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405692 [...] rest is here: Get soured the lawn « BuzzMachine Comments [...] [...] rest is here: Get soured the lawn « BuzzMachine Comments [...]

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405680 Andy Freeman Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:15:29 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405680 Of course, bringing up "don't be evil" was a dodge. Levine didn't tell us whether he thinks that Google should break Chinese law or when companies should break the laws that they're subject to. Then again, as I pointed out, what Google does in China has nothing to do with what's good for the US. Of course, bringing up “don’t be evil” was a dodge. Levine didn’t tell us whether he thinks that Google should break Chinese law or when companies should break the laws that they’re subject to.

Then again, as I pointed out, what Google does in China has nothing to do with what’s good for the US.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405679 Andy Freeman Sat, 05 Dec 2009 23:12:52 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405679 > I guess that depends how seriously you take this whole “Don’t be evil” nonsense, Actually, it doesn't. Journologic aside, "X did bad thing, X wants to do Y, therefore Y is bad" isn't actually a valid argument. (FWIW, I think that "don't be evil" is puffery.) > I can’t discuss net neutrality with someone who doesn’t understand it. Read up, educate yourself and get back to me. My description is a paraphrase of what AT&T execs say that they want when arguing against net neutrality. See, for example, Ed Whitacre's comments in http://www.businessweek.com/@@n34h*IUQu7KtOwgA/magazine/content/05_45/b3958092.htm . He was CEO of AT&T when he made those statements. If Levine wants to argue that Whitacre is wrong (or lying) about what AT&T wants to do, let's see the evidence. > I guess that depends how seriously you take this whole “Don’t be evil” nonsense,

Actually, it doesn’t. Journologic aside, “X did bad thing, X wants to do Y, therefore Y is bad” isn’t actually a valid argument. (FWIW, I think that “don’t be evil” is puffery.)

> I can’t discuss net neutrality with someone who doesn’t understand it. Read up, educate yourself and get back to me.

My description is a paraphrase of what AT&T execs say that they want when arguing against net neutrality. See, for example, Ed Whitacre’s comments in http://www.businessweek.com/@@n34h*IUQu7KtOwgA/magazine/content/05_45/b3958092.htm . He was CEO of AT&T when he made those statements.

If Levine wants to argue that Whitacre is wrong (or lying) about what AT&T wants to do, let’s see the evidence.

]]> By: Robert Levine http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405676 Robert Levine Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:45:24 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405676 >>>Yes, Google obeys Chinese law in China. Does Levine think that foreign companies should be exempt from US law in the US? Or is it that Google and or China are special? I guess that depends how seriously you take this whole "Don't be evil" nonsense, As far as the other stuff, I can't discuss net neutrality with someone who doesn't understand it. Read up, educate yourself and get back to me. >>>Yes, Google obeys Chinese law in China. Does Levine think that foreign companies should be exempt from US law in the US? Or is it that Google and or China are special?

I guess that depends how seriously you take this whole “Don’t be evil” nonsense,

As far as the other stuff, I can’t discuss net neutrality with someone who doesn’t understand it. Read up, educate yourself and get back to me.

]]> By: Andy Freeman http://www.buzzmachine.com/2009/12/02/get-off-the-lawn/#comment-405669 Andy Freeman Sat, 05 Dec 2009 17:57:13 +0000 http://www.buzzmachine.com/?p=5676#comment-405669 > Not as I’ve heard it. Can you prove otherwise? No, I can't prove anything about what you've heard or haven't heard. > I’m mad that Obama and Eric Schmidt ha’ve dressed up a government giveaway as a tool to fight censorship when Google itself censors anything China asks. Except that it's not a govt giveaway. As I pointed out, AT&T thinks that it should be paid more when you make a call that results in income than when you make a call for entertainment. Does Levine really agree? Yes, Google obeys Chinese law in China. Does Levine think that foreign companies should be exempt from US law in the US? Or is it that Google and or China are special? Besides - the complaint doesn't make any sense. We should do what's best for the US in the US regardless of what other people choose. BTW - Does Levine really believe that the good/bad of net neutrality has some relationship to whether Google supports it? > Not as I’ve heard it. Can you prove otherwise?

No, I can’t prove anything about what you’ve heard or haven’t heard.

> I’m mad that Obama and Eric Schmidt ha’ve dressed up a government giveaway as a tool to fight censorship when Google itself censors anything China asks.

Except that it’s not a govt giveaway.

As I pointed out, AT&T thinks that it should be paid more when you make a call that results in income than when you make a call for entertainment. Does Levine really agree?

Yes, Google obeys Chinese law in China. Does Levine think that foreign companies should be exempt from US law in the US? Or is it that Google and or China are special?

Besides – the complaint doesn’t make any sense. We should do what’s best for the US in the US regardless of what other people choose.

BTW – Does Levine really believe that the good/bad of net neutrality has some relationship to whether Google supports it?

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