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Hypocrisy is indeed a sin. Perhaps Limbaugh is guilty of it. Certainly Republicans are guilty of it. However, Clinton's sins, including lying under oath, subborning perjury, and various abuses of power, were more serious.
pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Jonathan Gewirtz on October 3, 2003 10:34 AM

I agree that both parties are guilty of hypocrisy.pdf sagem myx 3d

Again, you miss the point.pdf sagem myx 3d

Now consensual sex between adults (like Monica and Bill)AT WORK or who WORK TOGETHER (esp. if one is a supervisor) is a crime punishable by termination thanks to all of the accusations made during the confirmation hearings of Clarence Thomas and by the hysteria of feminists and Ted Kennedy of all people.pdf sagem myx 3d

So while you can sit there and say "I don't care about sex..." the politicians and feminists that started it with Thomas means that if I HAVE TO LIVE BY DIFFERENT RULES BECAUSE OF THESE POLITICAL IDIOTS, THEN POLITICIANS DO TO.pdf sagem myx 3d

An affair outside the job is one thing (with the neighbor, the waitress, I don't care), sex on the job or harrassment at the workplace is quite another Jeff. Don't try to brush that off as "just sex" when the rules have been changed in the last 10 years.pdf sagem myx 3d

Also don't turn it into "hairsplitting attacks on Clinton." The hairsplitting by the sex police on the LEFT and RIGHT have created these rules.pdf sagem myx 3d

Perfect example of hairsplitting? A friend got a call from her 3 year old daughter's pre-school that her daughter was kissing other children. Two three year olds giving eachother a kiss has been sexualized. It is now an offense. So is a hug and a kiss to "make it better" after a spill on the playground. This is what the hairsplitting has come to.pdf sagem myx 3d

It's ridiculous.
pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Catherine on October 3, 2003 11:17 AM

To hold politicians (or anybody else, really) to a higher moral standard than you hold yourself to is the first step on the slippery slope to totalitarianism.pdf sagem myx 3d

That being said, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones etc. pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: hugh macleod on October 3, 2003 12:31 PM

Comparing what Limbaugh is "accused" of and what Clinton "did" are like comparing apples and oranges and then asking, "who you gonna believe me or your lying eyes?" Limbaugh is a partisan he has made no bones about that. That is part of his appeal to his audience. Clinton was President of the United States behaving in a way at work that would get most Americans sued, fired, or both. But the thing with me is this, being somewhat libertarian, I don't consider what Limbaugh did a crime, moral transgression or even bad judgement. It was and is a personal choice. And trust me, being called an "addict" is relative as hell, it all depends on whose criteria you use. Plus most people self-medicate one way or another. With Bill Clinton it seems to be sex and power. Ted Kennedy is and has been known as a roaring drunk, that in no way has affected his ability to tax the living s--t out of us. And how many times would you guess that Ted has gone to the well of the Senate, to conduct the nation's business, sh--faced? Somethin that would get most Americans canned from their livelihoods in the good ol' boy Senate isin a days work. I don't believe what Clinton did to be a crime, or a particular moral trangression, but it sure as hell was bad judgement. I really don't give a s--t about Limbaugh's judgement, it does not affect my or most Americans' lives, but I do care about the judgement of the President, his or her judgement can get us killed.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Harry on October 3, 2003 12:33 PM

"Looking to government for moral guidance is damned near a violation of the separation of church and state; I don't want government legislating, dictating, or lecturing on morality;"pdf sagem myx 3d

Think about that. You can't possibly mean it. Most of our criminal code is about legisltating and dictating on morality.pdf sagem myx 3d

Why are kidnapping, rape, and murder illegal? Because we've made a judgment that it's wrong. Morally.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Derek Gilbert on October 3, 2003 01:16 PM

I am having difficulty buying into this hypocrisy theory. If I smoke but tell my son that smoking is bad for him is my message invalid? Does my hypocrisy negate my message? Because I'm a hypocrit am I more deserving of scorn than a smoker that remains silent on the negative consequences of smoking?
This application of hypocrisy takes on the moral fervor that you so rightfully castigate in others. Why it's almost hypocritical. (That's intended to be ironic-don't take offense.)
I take no glee in the destruction or self-destruction of a life. I remember watching the trevails of Robert Downey on Court TV and feeling so saddened over his loss of control over his life. However, as long as it's his life and has no criminal results (manslaughter, homicide, etc)then it's his life to live or surrender.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: tom scott on October 3, 2003 01:31 PM

Hypocrisy:
when someone pretends to believe something that they do not really believe or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time-Cambridge Dictionary.
So, yes, you would be a hypocrite. But aren't we all at one point or another? I told my mother when I was 13, when I have kids I'm going to let them eat ice cream and cake and cookies for breakfast whenever they want. To date that hasn't happened.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: KMK on October 3, 2003 03:15 PM

I have less trouble with the legislative branch of our governments involvement in Moral issues, at least we have the ultimate veto at the ballot box, the judiciary branch on the other hand is effectively unaccountable. The recent attempts by agenda driven groups to accomplish through the courts that which they were unable to accomplish by other means should be of real concern to all. pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Robert Swaim on October 3, 2003 03:40 PM

Hypocrisy? Is that where a few days ago you banned a few posters for using the f word and deleted their posts justifying it by mentioning that your son reads these posts, but then you use the f word twice here? Is that the sort of moral hypocrisy you're thinking about?pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: jarviswatch on October 3, 2003 05:42 PM

Thanks KMK but that's not exactly the point I was trying to make. The point I wish to make is this:
If I smoke but tell my son not to that could be called hypocritical. Does the fact that I'm a hypocrite invalidate my admonition? If it doesn't then what does labeling me a hypocrite have to do with my message. It's either a valid message or an invalid message whether or not I'm a hypocrite. If Rush uses drugs and criticizes drug usage he is a hypocrite. Therefore disregard his message.
I think this labeling is just another ad hominen.
P.S. I don't think changing your mind about ice cream is being hypocritical. In the instance you cite I think it's maturation.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: tom scott on October 3, 2003 07:38 PM

Harry: "I don't consider what Limbaugh did a crime, moral transgression or even bad judgement."pdf sagem myx 3d

Are prescriptions for federally controlled substances now optional? Did I miss that bit of healthcare reform?pdf sagem myx 3d

Derek: "Why are kidnapping, rape, and murder illegal?"pdf sagem myx 3d

Because they cause suffering to other people. And yes, in essence that is what morality hopes to avoid, but there can be actions which are moral but which necessarily cause suffering. The two concepts are not equivalent.
pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Rootbeer on October 4, 2003 12:03 AM

Tom-The extent of your explanation may or may not invalidate your admonition. If we are talking to a five year old, hypocrite might not be part of his vocabulary, but if were talking about a 15 year old it will. To the extent you explain why smoking is bad for him may have an impact. But at 15 you would still be a hypocrite in his eyes. Your right it's just a label. I think Rush's ESPN comment was directed at the media and not a hard core racial slur. On the drug issue he's flip flopped around on his message as this article points out. On quote has him saying round up rich white guys and hold them accountable and then he says it might be better to legalize and regulate. The article also points out "And Jeb Bush, the president's brother and Rush's governor, was pleading for leniency and privacy when his daughter got arrested for drugs. Yet he'd been happily sending other Florida youngsters to long prison terms for similar crimes."
Conflicting messages are exactly that. They are also hypocritical and sometimes wrong.
http://www.newsday.com/news/opinion/columnists/nyc-henn1003,0,4055397.column?coll=ny-opinion-columnists
Are the messages people send important to our society? Yes, look at the thong industry. What was once a 2 million dollar industry has turned into a 14+million dollar industry. The age group they are selling to is 13-24. Before I get labeled an anti-thong activist, let me say I have nothing against them. But my 13 year old won't be wearing one. Am I a hypocrite. Damn straight. As I tried to point out with the ice cream sometimes it's not a bad thing to be a hypocrite. As Jeb Bush shows us sometimes it is.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: KMK on October 4, 2003 10:02 AM

I don't think the recent Rush comments were racist, or even morally wrong. Sure you could say he was incorrect as to McNab's treatment, but in no way was he being a racist. That is bullcrap.pdf sagem myx 3d

However, I don't listen to his radio show so don't quote me on his moral obligations outside of the espn shows. Also the drug allegations still has to pan out, innocent until proven guilty. Nah, let's go crucify Kobe and Rush before we know anything!pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Greg on October 4, 2003 02:18 PM

Just to make in clear: When did this Enquirer story become fact, as in FACT: Rush used these drugs. Wait....pdf sagem myx 3d

You mean its not proven? But he's a Right-winger, he has to be a hypocrite!pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Greg on October 4, 2003 02:21 PM

Why are kidnapping, rape, and murder illegal?pdf sagem myx 3d

Because we don't want to be kidnapped, raped, or murdered, so we as citizens made it illegal to do these things.pdf sagem myx 3d

Because we've made a judgment that it's wrong. Morally.pdf sagem myx 3d

Morality has nothing to do with it. These things are illegal because it serves the enlightened self-interests of the citizenry that they be illegal. There are plenty of things that people consider non-immoral, that are illegal (think zoning laws and campaign finance laws) and plenty of things that are immoral but not illegal (dumping your wife and kids to marry an 18-year-old cheerleader).pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Dan on October 6, 2003 02:32 PM

It's worth noting that Arnold Schwarzenegger, like most of Hollywood, opposed Clinton's impeachment.pdf sagem myx 3d

So in my opinion, the hypocrisy here is primarily on the Democratic side. They claimed that the reports of Clinton's harassment/adultery/rape/etc weren't relevant to his Presidency; Schwarzenegger agreed. Now it's Arnie's turn and they're going after like rabid dogs.pdf sagem myx 3d Posted by: Dan on October 6, 2003 02:36 PM